Hi all,
I have started preparing the hull for my new paddler "Marchioness of Lorne".
The hull is available as "Albion" Models by Design, luckily same general dimensions as MoL.
Just over 50" long overall at 1:48 ratio.
She was built 1891 for the Caledonian Steam Packet Co. offering various excursions during summer, and Arran service during some winters.
I have had the hull for sometime, and getting it out of storage, I realise that it will take a bit of tidying up, sanding mould lines & filling inperfections etc.....which brings me to my ask for advice/opinions on the following...
On turning the hull upside down, the bottom of the moulding is not flat, and has sort of "spooned" up the way. see pic - I have drawn round the area where the floor has risen a good 2mm or so.
So I was wondering, do I fill it flat with filler, and add weight, or leave alone. I was concerned air may get trapped & cause instability when sailing :-\
Any suggestions gratefully received!!
Progress will be slow at first on this build, due to a 75% completed model to finish, and work etc, but my first goal is to get the hull filled, sanded, primed, rudder stock/support made, shaft/ sponson positions marked, ports drilled and deck supports glued in place.
As this is my 1st non static paddler, I will no doubt be asking for help a lot, and I will certainly document progress as it happens if that is ok :D
Here's a bad scan of the ship, and a few of the hull.
regards
Clark
Oooops!
Here's the bad scan, and hull!!!
Hi Clark,
Looking forward to reading about your build.
Please can we see some pics of the Lochiel when shes done?
Thinking about your hull .. would it be possible to remove the offending section completely and then glass a new section in?
Might be possible to tack say a piece of plastic or smooth faced hardboard to the bottom then simply glass from above? remove hard board and hey presto a new bottom?
Regards,
Kim
Fitz
I would put a layer of grp over the bulge from the inside first, then sand away the bulge from the outside.
If it is a bubble, then depending on its depth, either build up with grp layer, or bodge it with paste. (I would suggest 1 ounce matting)
Cheers, Kim and Sandy.
I was just looking at the hull again, and the bottom is quite thin (the whole hull is relatively thin, compared to the hull i am working on at present), and I may be able to flatten it out with a couple of stiffeners on the hull bottom inside, it flattens out with light pressure ok, and with no straining!
One of those questions like How long is a piece of string Clarke - Ask 6 different people and your likely to get 6 different answers!
Personally I'd try gently heating the bottom of the hull and then add a flat piece of ply and some weights to the inside and see if it will return to it's proper shape....
If that didn't work, I'd just use filler - It's right at the bottom of the hull where ballast would have to go, and if it's only 2mm it isn't going to add a huge amount of weight.
Just my two penneth worth....
Regards
Eddy
That's good advice Eddy.
You may want to sight along the hull sides VERY carefully to make sure that the hull has nor 'bananed'. You get hulls with depressions forming in the bottom usually because they were not fully cured when removed from the mould. Sometimes the sides of the hull move OUT as the bottom moves up. So to be sure just check with eye and straight edge that the hull is symetrical and has not twisted.
With a few bulkheads it's usually easy enough to straighten out
All the best
Stuart
Thanks guys.
It seems that the sides have moved out slightly, as Stuart suggested, - however everything seems symetrical, with no twisting along the length, so after I have done some trimming & sanding I think I'd be happier just fitting a few bulkheads and filling in the depression in the bottom
Knowing me I'd be likley to put in new twists if I used heat ::)
Fitz
I don't like filler much as it has no strength, but for a thin skin, I sometimes use cloth (like a handkerchief) saturated in GRP resin, and with Christmas coming up , you may have a surplus of handkies!
Or put on a very thin gel coat with 1/32 ply for strength.
Sandy
Hello folks. One method I have used in the past to straghten concave hull bottoms is as follows: find a good flat syrface to stand the hull on. . If the hull is wide enough to take building bricks, warm two or three bricks in the oven (not too hot). pour hot water into the bottom of the hull up to the top of the bilge curve. Put the warm bricks in the water and support the hull sies with more bricks or heavy tins, anything to keep the sides straight and vertical. The heat permeates the fibre glass and the weight of the bricks should push it flat. ALLOW TO GO COLD. check, and if necessary repeat with more weight. I have done this twice in the past, once to straghten a twisted hull and once to flatten a hull bottom. Worked both times. Regards, walter
Thanks, everyone, for the helpful advice.
After a bit of of deliberation I think I will have a go with the hot water & bricks.
I got a sheet of 3/4 ply for a baseboard, and I have "booked" a portion of perfectly flat floor in the Dining room, for this weekend, so no excuses now ::) (I did get a few funny looks when I explained why!)
Meanwhile, I will get on with a bit of trimming at the top of the hull sides.
Best of luck Fitz when using the dining room!
One winter night when the wife was out and it was too cold to work in the shed, I started to cut a sheet of 1/16" ply on the dining room table.
I thought to myself that this is hard ply and taking a long time to cut!
Yes - I had went through the ply and was cutting her ladyship's polished surface!
Well, I'm not allowed any modelling in the house after that
sandy
Following on from Sandy's post above (off topic I know!), but some of you know my wife suffers from epilepsy....
After thousands of falls over the years when taking seizures, she has minor brain damage - One of the things affected is her eyesight.
So the one plus point to all of this, is that she's never even noticed the burn in the livingroom carpet that I made two years ago with a soldering iron when soldering some wires onto a motor! ;)
And just so we're clear on this - If anyone tells her, they are a dead man!
Eddy
Guys, I have taken note, and I will be careful!!, and at least if I have any accidents it will be right next to the drinks cabinet so I can grab a bottle of Malt & hide in the garage ;D
Anyway, I have a few ideas to keep the hull in shape as the heat does its stuff, so I will post a few pics of the process over the weekend hopefully, all going well!!
Hi all,
Well, managed a bit of progress this weekend, firstly got the top of the hull sides trimmed down at the bow & stern, to the moulding line on the hull.
Today I have made up a jig to hold the hull whilst I try to flatten out the bottom, using the hot water method as suggested by Walter. I must admit this "jig" idea came from a documentary I watched recently, about "Medieval torture machines", and, I have been warned that if I make a mess, my device may well be used on myself :o
However instead of using bricks, I have a length of aluminium "U" section, connected by threaded rods, to the metal "L" sections above the hull. By turning wing nuts on the threaded rod under the "L" section, the aluminium "U" section is forced down, on the centre line of the hull, flattening the bottom.
The plan is, as I add water, and as the hull softens, I will be able to gradually tighten the wing nuts, then leave the water to cool overnight.....hopefully with a flat underside!!
Hope to get the water in the hull later this evening
Here's a few pics of the jig
A very neat arrangment - that should do the job. It's nice to see a well thought out engineered solution to a problem.
Stuart
Fitz
Don't forget the Marchioness of Lorne coat of arms for the paddle boxes on your model!
This was off the real vessel of that time, and used to be on Gourock station, but don't know its whereabouts now
Sandy
Hi Sandy, I remember the crest at Gourock pier. They have gone now, though I'm going to find out where they are if I can....I have started enquiring but no luck yet. Hope they weren't binned!
Caledonia 1889 & Duchess of Hamilton 1890 were also in existance, on display at Weymss Bay I think at one point.
Anyway I managed to get the hull bottom flattened a bit, although not completely, however it is much better and I will leave it at that.
I have had to draw up my own General Arrangement plan, as I could only get shipbuilders "Deck" plans, so I have been fine tuning them this week.
Next some sanding/filling inside the Bulwarks at the bow, & get some deck supports glued on.
Clark,
I did an oil painting of the paddle crest. This may be of use to you or anyone else building the model.
Robert
That's beautiful Robert! I'm VERY impressed.
Stuart
Agreed, that is an amazing piece of work, and will be helpful when the time comes to make the crests 8)
Hi All, i was doing some bed time reading last night and noticed an article in April 1977's Model Boat mag about a Duchess of Fife Build in New Zeland. Not sure you'd learn much from it but happy to send a scan if it interests you Clark.
Regards
Kim
Off topic for a moment, does anybody have a pic of the coat of arms for the Kylemore they could post?
Thanks
Kim
Quote from: Talisman on December 12, 2009, 09:19:13 AM
Hi All, i was doing some bed time reading last night and noticed an article in April 1977's Model Boat mag about a Duchess of Fife Build in New Zeland. Not sure you'd learn much from it but happy to send a scan if it interests you Clark.
Regards
Kim
It's in our Downloads area guys... http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=57
Eddy
Thanks guys I will have a look at the Duchess of Fife build, as she was relatively similar to the Marchioness of Lorne, it should be handy. As I am finding out, there is not a great deal of info on the MoL, compared to other Clyde paddlers.
Kim, re the "Kylemore" crest, I will have a look over the weekend, & see if I can find any pics. I don't think it will be as elaborate as the MoL's though!!
Hi all,
Well, I have managed a bit of work on the hull at last, spurred on by seeing all the great progress on the various builds on here!!!
I managed to get the bottom of the hull flattened out a bit ( not completely though) so I have moved on, to forward lower deck supports (balsa), and a obechi/ply bracing round the rest of the hull, nearly to the stern. This general idea was pinched from an article in Model Boats mag, on the "Glen Rosa" build.
This has given the hull good rigidity....and everything is symetrical, thankfully ;D
So now can get on with giving hull a bit of filler here and there, and marking ports, sponsons etc & rudder gear.
Not very exiting, but a few pics of progress
Clark
It's good to see your making a start Clark..... Remember it's not that long until September 19th :)
Eddy
Hi Eddy,
I had hoped I might make it down this year on Paddler Day, unfortunately not possible to get that weekend off :(
However keen to get on with build now I have started!!
Clark,
Struggled with the photos of the hull framing (looks great mind) until I realised that unlike the Minerva / Glen Rosa she doesn't have the half raised foredeck. I take it from the curved section you're building her with the short foresalon as built? There is a good photo of her in the "Herald Book of the Clyde Volume 2" - Page 88 with the extended fore salon though.
Hi Mercury,
yes I'm going to model her as built with the shorter fore saloon. I managed to get a "decks" plan showing her as built. (and less windows to cut out!!)
Going to paint her in the 1st Caledonian scheme with the green underbody instead of red, should be colourful :)
I have the Herald book, as you say a good photo. Haven't found many clear pics of her unfortunately.
A bit of a bone of contention the Caley colour scheme. While the dark blue hull seams to be agreed although I have heard it was black after WWI, I've seen reference to green, red and brown boot topping, pink saloons, white saloons and white with pink and blue lining. Some boats have white deckhouses, others painted brown and other varnished wood. The Caley scheme is also particularly poor at showing up on photos. What conclusions have you managed to come to - I'd like to do a Duchess of Argyle at some point so quite interested in this topic.
Yes there were several changes I have found out about. The green underbody was short lived for a few years in the 1890s, then reverted to a red/brown shade. The upper part of the hull was dark blue/gold lining until 1923, then black (LMS livery). Saloons pale pink with pale blue lining & some white lining around the window area. I have a detailed description (somewhere!)of this part, but its difficult to visualize, so I will probably paint up a "test saloon side" to see how it works out. I will let you know how I get on....
Marchioness of Lorne had white deckhouses, with some sort of lining on them, as did Duchess of Hamilton.
I'm open to correction, but that is the general description in several articles I have read so far.
Clark
Clark,
This pretty much matches what I have read. Gavin Johnston on his Duchess of Rothesay has built up the saloons and windows to give a relief effect which is very successful and would allow lining relatively easily. You may be able to see this in some of the pictures from the 2009 paddler day. I think he used the great picture of the Rothesay from the circa 1996 Clyde Steamers magazine of the CRSC.
Found a pic of Gavin's Rothesay:
http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1403
Appologies to Marinemole - the pic is from his gallery.
I have seen the pictures, the Duchess of Rothesay is a lovely model, and, I have been planning to do that for the lining on my saloon sides....funnily enough I was just looking at that photo the other day on the cover of the CRSC mag, shows a good bit of detail.
Re the Duchess of Argyll, I think she differed in her scheme, eg no gold lining, and maybe the saloon sides were white not pink. Cant remember how I heard that, so I'm not definate about it!!
Yes - I think this was common to all the turbines - i.e. they didn't have the gold lining.
The photo's I have found so far are just too poor to determine if she had lined saloons or not. In some they look pinkish and in others white but the colour quality from that era is not good enough.
Hi PDs
Haven't had much time for paddler building recently, so not a lot of progress on Marchioness of Lorne. Im hunting for a GA drawing of a similar fleetmate, (Caledonia 1889) to double check main deck level and height of saloon sides...as this involves cutting 60+ windows I want to get it right 1st time! I have drawn my own plan for Marchioness of Lorne & just want reassured before cutting! Pics show saloon sides taped onto temp supports on hull...they will be trimmed down when i'm happy with dimensions!
Anyway I've made the rudder & epoxied rudder tube into hull, rudder is removeable by unscrewing bar fixed to keel.
Which leads to my question....on the real ship rudder control was by chain down the inside of the hull & round a pulley/block to the rudder quadrant. Pics show a quadrant I bought...& can butcher if nesessary, so, has anyone used fine chain for a rudder linkage? is it even possible...ie the chain is bound to have slack in it on a model? or do I stick to tried & tested linkages? there is not a lot of room & a conventional servo linkage would be visible at the rope handling area where the 2 rather bemused figures are standing!! Any advice/ideas would be appreciated, (There will be a grating over the quadrant) heres a few pics
regards
Clark
Hi PD's.....djcf.......if the steering chain were even partially visible on the real vessel...nothing would be better than displaying the scale representation on your model of the Marchioness
There are basically 3 types of plain model chain [without studs as in anchor chain]
1. brass formed
2. brass formed & fusion [resistance] welded links
3. steel formed & brass plated
Option 2. would be OK, however I would be concerned with the security of the plastic steering quadrant to the rudder vertical shaft....a brass T POST soldered in position :hammer may be an alternative ..... :shhh .....Derek
Hi Clark,
I haven't used fine chain, but I have used cord. I make sure that I incorporate a spring/O-ring/elastic in the linkage to take up the slack.
Regards,
Gerald.
I have used necklace chain in this situation works well is strong. Cheep if bought at a boot sale. On my latest build Duke of Devonshire I am using cord from a scanner. R.G.Y.
Thanks for the replies and advice, guys.
Derek, as you say, the plastic quadrant is just a push fit & not very reliable, I will just use it for a mock-up, and make something more permanent and secure later....I seem to remember someone using the earth pin from a British standard electrical plug.
Gerald, Geoff, good ideas, I will see what materials I can find and get experimenting
regards
Clark
A model of a clyde puffer in model boats (years ago) had something like that using a pulley with two thirds cut away and a chain soldered in the centre of the remaining third of the pulley. Tension was provided by a spring (the type you used to get with futaba transmitters to replace the one inside - it removed the self centering feature on the throttle stick) attaching one end to the servo, the spring was hidden inside the boiler casing.
Fitz
I use the earth pin from a 13amp plug for my tiller arms. thinned down with a file and the screw replaced with a grub screw - get more purchase on an Allan key!
Sandy
Hi Sandy,
Yes as you say the earth pin is perfect, I attacked one with a file a couple of days ago, just waiting on some materials to continue with the rudder linkage....meanwhile 60 saloon windows are waiting to be cut!!
Hi PDs,
I have managed to do a little mock-up for the rudder linkage. Thanks to Gavin (marmion) for all the advice regarding the linkage on his Duchess of Rothesay model.
Firstly I used the earth pin from a 13amp plug for a tiller, and drilled it for two 2mm bolts, the chain is attached to the bolts via ferrules from the end of electric guitar strings...they slip over the bolts and are free to swivel. The chain goes round plastic pulleys, (I will replace these with brass ones eventually) and into 3/16" tube, bent gradually inboard. I have made a join in both these tubes, so I can fine tune them later to suit connection to servo arm.
Quite surprised it all feels smooth & little friction when working the chains by hand. A grating will eventually cover the tiller & pulleys.
A few pics of the mock up, everything is just wedged in place just now
Clark
It looks like a nicely sorted setup Clark, well done!
About the only thing I would add would be to flare the ends of the tubes slightly to make sure the chain doesn't bind on them - Just anneal the ends of the tube and make up a tapered drift to flare the ends, it should only take a short time to do....
Eddy
Hi PD's....... :bravo...Clark......you could consider one of those adjustable electronic servo "slow downs"...not sure what brand or type of rudder servo you are using...but many common types would flick :hammer your rudder from one extremity to the other in say 2 seconds :nono
Would look far more scale realistic if the rudder swing was say ....~~~~5 seconds
I must agree with Eddy....bell those tube ends ...... :beer ....Derek
Quote from: derekwarner_decoy on May 18, 2010, 03:58:53 PM
Hi PD's....... :bravo...Clark......you could consider one of those adjustable electronic servo "slow downs"...
Would look far more scale realistic if the rudder swing was say ....~~~~5 seconds
I must agree with Eddy....bell those tube ends ...... :beer ....Derek
I like your idea might try it myself with my BIG Talisman ... if i ever have time to get back to it :)
a link to a servo unit if you need it.
http://www.technobots.co.uk/acatalog/Servo_Controller_for_R_C_Models.html
Regards,
Kim
Hi PD's...... :coffee ....Talisman....there are a number of ready built versions of these "servo slow downs"...for $13...to $20 AUD....& are good value
Due to some mathematical wizardry that I do not understand :shoot :sobbing ...the output torque is not reduced by the reduced output speed of the servo motor when the servo is coupled with the "servo slow downs"...electronics
I think in our [PD] terms we do not have to relate to instantaneous rudder positioning & resultant expectations.... :a102 ..as we have the ability to reverse the engines to keep all OK :s_cool .................:c017 .....Derek
Hi,
Eddy, Derek, yes I agree the tube ends need flared out, I have never done this before, anyone got any tips?
I haven't thought about servos yet, (I just wanted the tubing sorted out, before proceeding with construction) but a slower swing would be better....thanks for the link Kim
cheers
Clark
Hi PD's........Clark....I would not try & bell mouth the K & S brass tube...it is too thin a wall section & it's ductility too low & so will split
Just :thinking...go to a boot maker/repairer & purchase 1/2 a dozen un formed brass islets ..... :c002 you know those uncrimped ones that after crimping down....you thread your shoe laces into???? you may have to use an alternate section of K&S brass tube as you need a sizing that the un formed islets can be soft soldered into the bore
Naturally use the same at the servo end :trophy ....
Just another point, in your .jpg 011...the rudder appears to have a swing of approx 45 degrees for port..so naturally an included 90 degrees is the full rudder angle travel - also in this same .jpg we see the rudder fulcrum length - idealily you should keep the servo fulcrum of the same ratio...so that say 45 degrees of servo travel = the same 45 degrees of rudder movement
Again if you are to use one of the newer proportional RC sets.....these are programable & you can set & forget the P & S movements - Derek
Quote from: derekwarner_decoy on May 19, 2010, 04:18:04 PM
Hi PD's........Clark....I would not try & bell mouth the K & S brass tube...it is too thin a wall section & it's ductility too low & so will split
Just :thinking...go to a boot maker/repairer & purchase 1/2 a dozen un formed brass islets ..... :c002 you know those uncrimped ones that after crimping down....you thread your shoe laces into???? you may have to use an alternate section of K&S brass tube as you need a sizing that the un formed islets can be soft soldered into the bore
Derek, thanks for the tip, sounds like a good idea, we have a shoe repairer in town so I will have a look, cheers
Clark
There is always this 'servo-slow' circuit - http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=1408 - the servo does not remain where it was when the stick returns to centre, so far as I know... but! if...
Quote from: derekwarner_decoy on May 19, 2010, 04:18:04 PM...if you are to use one of the newer proportional RC sets.....these are programable & you can set & forget the P & S movements...
...that would perhaps make such a circuit unnecessary
Hi Fitz,
came across some old photos and amongst them were ones of the paddle box decoration from MARCHIONESS OF LORNE of 1891 and CALEDONIA of 1889.
I took them on Wemyss Bay pier in Sept 1975, and talking of piers, its Blairmore pier open day this Saturday. Sandy
Hi Sandy,
thanks for the photos...I keep meaning to find out what happened to these crests. They are going to be fun to make for the model!!
I'm off work Saturday, will try to pop along to Blairmore pier.
Hi PDs
Not had a lot of time for progress recently, but have been thinking about the saloon sides.
These have a lot of windows 60+ in total. I have made a trial port rear saloon side in plasticard, I had the idea of stiffening it by sticking perspex material on the rear, forming the window glass.
However doing a bit of research, I'm now not keen on using the plasticard (its quite thin), as it seems as though heat/ sunlight may affect it.
Think I will try 1/32 ply instead, a bit of work to get a finish, but seems to be much stronger.
Pic shows the saloon side, (the plastic one). not a lot to it, its mostly window!
Was wondering if people thought ply was the better option!!
regards
Clark
I use both wood and plasticard Clarke - Generally I use wood, simply before I prefer working with it. But I do use styrene if I think it will be easier for the part in question....
Styrene takes no time at all to get ready for a decent paint finish, whereas wood can take a lot of work sanding and filling the grain if you need a smooth surface.
My models have sat in the back of a car for hours on end on hot summer days, with temperatures in excess of 40 celcius inside the car, and I've never had a problem with either wood or styrene parts deforming. But it's not something I would recommend!!
Regards
Eddy
Hi Eddy,
Yes I have also used both on other models, but these bits have so many large windows & are really flimsy. I have just cut out a test piece with some windows from ply, & it just seems so much more substantial. Think I will try the fore saloon sides first, as they only have 11 windows each ::)
Clarke,
There's one sure fired way to find out - Since the temperature is very high right now, put your sample piece into a box without a lid (just to keep any cooling breeze off it) and sit it outside in full sunlight..... If it's going to warp it will do it then surely?
Regards
Eddy
I believe white styrene does in fact degrade when subjected to strong sunlight (or any source of ultraviolet light) painting it should prevent (or at least delay) any such effects but I do try to use black styrene when possible - unfortunately I haven't seen it in the thinner sheets for some reason!
I may be wrong, but I just thought that styrene (of any colour) would deteriorate under UV light?
Having said that, the paint certainly protects it, and I do know of models that are 20 yrs old or more with no ill effects.... But even white structures should be painted rather than leaving bare styrene!
It would be interesting to find out for sure if the colour of the styrene has any bearing on it's UV resistance Mick?
Regards
Eddy
I don't know really wether black styrene is any better than white at resisting UV but when I worked for BT they went through a period of using black cables instead of white for that reason, though the cables were vinyl coated, not styrene (and about 18 months later someone pointed out that as the cables are underground they wouldn't get any sunlight on them!)
Clark,
If it helps - Dad's Jupiter is 0.5mm thick white styrene (Painted with Enamel )superstructures and clear plasticard type material for glazing. As you know the model is 40years old! The model has been sitting close to a window for the last 10 - 15 years.
The plasticard is still in good condition and you could argue it has faird better than the ply used on Atalanta which is about the same age.
Hope that helps put your mind at ease regarding Styrene .....
Kim
Thanks all, for the comments on this. I was really undecided, but as I have a styrene side already cut out & ready to go, (its 1mm thick styrene), I think I will go with that. I also have an idea for bracing it up when attached to the hull.
Also, staying on the west coast of Scotland, prolonged strong sunshine shouldn't be too much of a problem ;D
I really don't think it will be a problem at all, the only thing I worry about at all is a 'Billing Boats' sea star I've had about 25 years, it has a rather thin styrene hull and I spray painted it white - wish I'd painted it black first now to keep more light out. Still, it seems OK .... ???
Well thats the starboard aft saloon side just cut out, another 19 windows and I still have all my fingers :D , I could give them a darker primer when the time comes, but need to overspray them with white then paint pale pink with pale blue lining....colourful to say the least 8)
Just remember that if you are having interior lighting it will cause a glow unless you put a blocking coat on. We have one model around here of the Smit Hunter that got nick named the orange pumpkin.
Regards,
Gerald.
Hi Gerald,
I am not going to have interior lighting, but I have seen that effect on a model that didn't have a blocking coat.
Even daylight can show through the white styrene, after painting white. I have made that mistake before :-[, so I will be sure to put a blocker coat on!!
Hi PDs
Well, managed to get all the saloon sides cut out, (I will never complain about windows again :-X!), so decided to do a mock up just to make sure the sides fit & look ok. I have taped them to temp. supports.
Normally I would have some bracing to glue the sides to already done, but with the amount of glazing on the sides, I'm doing it the other way round.
The real ship had some panelling effect round the windows, so will do some of that before the sides are fixed to the hull. Still got the fore & aft ends of the saloons to make, (another 13 windows ::))
A few pics
Clark
That's a really elegant looking model already Clark. - Yummy!
All the best
stuart
Very very nice Clarke.... That's going to look extremely elegant on the water!
Regards
Eddy
Cheers guys,
Just glad those windows are nearly done! Got my "plastruct" delivery today so will do the half round bead running above the windows & start thinking about supporting these sides & deck beams for prom. deck.
It seems the Marchioness of Lorne (the ship!)was never really regarded as a beauty or elegant in her day, compared to her fleetmates. More a workhorse....still, those victorians must have been really picky :D
She may not have been classed as a beauty in her day Clarke, but those Victorians certainly knew how to build stylish ships!
Having said that, with the current flock of ships that look like blocks of flats built on top of a bathtub, anything would look elegant!
Eddy
Hi all,
I have been a bit quiet on this thread for a month or two, been busy on another project, but now have more time for paddler building :D
Anyway, I have been doing small bits here and there and tedious jobs!!
To date I've managed to -
Slice brass tubing into 40 pieces for ports ready for "Trylon" clear resin.
Cut 60+ saloon window panes out of 1.5mm perspex.
Solder some eyelets onto the ends of the rudder chain tubes..as Eddy & Derek suggested earlier, no rough ends now!!
Strengthen up the saloon sides with plastic section and glue them to the hull.....as I have mentioned the saloon sides are mainly window, so now working on some internal bracing, using perspex, so I don't have visible bracing through the windows. I want to get this bit right, so have been spending a lot of time thinking it through :P
Will get some pics on soon, when it looks like I have done something ;D
Clark
I will look forward to seeing you and the Marchioness at Paddler day 2012. Which is the higher rank Duke or Marchioness? Geoff R.G.Y
Thanks, Geoff,
I don't like to give myself too tight a deadline (2011 paddler day!)... ;D should have the "Marchioness" plus maybe A N Other hopefully!!
Not to sure about the titles, but I think Duke would be the higher rank...you can put the Duke in the water first :D
Anyway got a bit of work done this week, I have braced the saloon sides on the inside round the window openings with various sizes of plastruct, this gives me an individual pocket for each bit of glazing to fit into. also put in clear perspex braces, so they would be invisible through the windows. Quite pleased as the sides are sturdy now.
Still got to do the curved joining bits aft, where the saloon sides meet the saloon end. Will give some plasticard the hot water treatment & mould round a former.
Added a strip 2.5 x 6.5 plastruct to form waterway at edge of hull/deck. (the wooden deck will rest on this also.
Started a bit of the panelling effect on the rear end of saloon with various strip & half round section.
Next same process on fore saloon area.
A few pics of progress so far
Clark
It's looking really good Clark I'm impressed!
You and Geoff have almost a year till the next paddler day, so I don't expect to see any excuses in 2011 :)
With a bit of luck, Hans and the gang will be over from Switzerland/Germany, and Stuart will be back from Greece, so as long as the weather gods smile on us it should be a good show!
Having said that, the weather slowly improved throughout the day this year, and most models managed to get some on the water time... And as next year will be our 5th Paddler Day, lets try and make it into the best show yet!!
Regards
Eddy
Cheers Eddy,
Progress will (should!) be fairly steady now, and now giving some fore thought to sponson construction. She doesn't have too much on the prom deck; two deckhouses, one with bridge on top, and one funnel. However plenty of constructional problems to solve at the bow, as a large portion of the prom deck is open below and supported on stanchions. Thats why I started at the stern ;D
Paddler day is the goal!
Hi PDs
I have started making a few bits to support the curved front of the fore saloon. After a bit of trial & error I decided to use some clear perspex supports as I did for the sides (incidentally the perspex glues well with standard polystyrene cement without fogging). I find this method gives great strength to flimsy structures and is unobtrusive and light. The saloon front has another 10 windows plus a door in the middle.
I like to do a bit of internal detail, but in this case, the ply bracing inside the hull is in the way. Will just paint this matt black to make it as unobtrusive as possible. Better to have a solid hull.
Not very exciting but some of the bits for the curved front.
Clark
Hi all,
Managed to get the saloon front done, (minus the door in the middle). Need to get this area painted before fixing permanently as its pale pink with pale blue lining, I don't fancy doing that in position :o
Have sent for some humbrol acrylic tinlets to mix up some colours
At least thats the last of 71 windows cut out ;)
Some work on the foredeck area next.
Clark
I'll bet your glad to see the back of all those windows Clark! :D
That's why I choose models that don't have too many windows - Life's too short!
Regards
Eddy
Hi PD's.....but the windows do look
True & Square x all 72 of them ....which is a great challenge & accomplishment ........ :clap ......Derek
Hi PDs
Some recent work on the model has been cutting out the hawse holes for the anchor chains, and some mooring rope holes in the forward bulwarks.
I have drawn onto the hull the water level (draft just a touch over 1 7/8"), thick white waterline and porthole positions. Due to access issues forward I have decided to use BECC decals for the portholes, rather than drill them out. Safer than having any leaking ports in an unfixable position.
Was thinking about using some 1/8" ply for sponson bases, faced with some obechi to for the belting strip round the outside. Just in the planning stage here because I need to make a section removable on each side for wheel/shaft removal/fitting.
Bought a can of Plastikote "Cameo pink" spray for the saloon sides, although still have to test it over Halfords primer in case it reacts!!
Will get some pics on soon
Clark
Hi all,
Have been and got myself a shiny new Dremmel, to replace my old machine. So tested this out by drilling/filing out four holes for the sponson supports. I used 10mm square obechi to go right through the hull, fore & aft of paddles. The yellow tape shows where the sponson base will be, under the supports. The supports are not glued in yet, will do a final measure to check all is in the right place. I think this will be quite solid & strong, hopefully!!
For the sponson bases themselves, I might try 1/8" obechi, with 1/16" ply skin top & bottom glued with 24 hour Araldite....will do a test piece first.
Will prob do forward and aft sponsons separately, as I want the middle piece (in front of the paddles) to be removeable for shaft/ paddle removal.
Last pic is a mock up to make sure the floats will be immersed enough, although I won't be using these wheels, but a set a few mm bigger.
cheers
Clark
Hi PD's....Clark....the method using two x one piece 10 mm square wooden structural members is the best method of construction, but could I suggest if weight or space is not an issue reinforce the structural members to the hull with some say 3 mm ply prior to epoxy resining to the hull
Another tip during construction is to position the hull as you have displayed below....
1. chicking for squareness etc....then add a few tack welds of super glue
2. invert the hull 90 degrees with sets of structural timber facing down......
3. mask up a temporary box to house your reinforcement ply piece
4. cast the expoy into the form work over the ply
5. add the angular supports between the structural timbers & the hull externals
Super strong construction....then cut :hammer the unused middle sections out.....Derek :beer
Hi Derek,
As you suggest, I will add some reinforcement round that area, whilst keeping an eye on the weight. (Of the model, not myself :D)
I do feel it is important that this area is strong.
Hi all,
Armed with a compass and some spanish curves, I managed to mark out then cut the sponson tops...these are just clamped in place at the moment, to check for fit.
As i mentioned the sponsons will be a sandwich of 1/8" obechi between 1/16 ply top and bottom, hope to get these glued up this week.
cheers
Clark
Clark,
Very interested in seeing your sponsons progress. Your method is very similar to that which I used on my original Mercury 15 years ago. This time on my Waverley I've been trying to build the sponsons totally separately to the hull and then bolting them on. Sadly the curves of the hull are not easy to match and I'm having to botch it a bit. I'm not happy with the two attempts I've made so far so will follow your methodology with interest and may copy it.
Your build so far looks great - really looking forward to seeing the model on the water.
Regards,
Richard
Hi Richard,
I will get a bit more done tomorrow, on the port aft sponson, Thats my test piece, and if it all works out ok, will post pics of the others during build.
I have had a few ideas re sponson construction, settled on trying this first. Not sure yet exactly how to do the removeable bit of belting in front of the wheels, again I do have a few ideas.....the main things are I want the sponsons light, strong and access for wheel removal etc.
Glad its similar to your methods on Mercury...makes me think I'm heading in the right direction :D
all the best
Clark
Hi Clark ,
I am really interested to see how you construct your Sponsons.
On my Jeanie I have used 1mm styrene top and bottom with a band of 4mm x 12mm obechie sandwiched between and sanded to shape around the outside edge and ribs at the paddle box and hull side. Unfortunately i didn't take pics at the time of construction.. If you can imagine how an RC aircraft wing is constructed you will probably get the idea.
Looking at my Dad's Jupiter he used a solid piece of 6mm Ply .... but
Jupiter gets away with it ... he wasn't daft picking her as a model.
If he could see what I'm working on next ... lol
Regards,
Kim
Hi Kim,
Thats basically what I am trying...obechi framework inside the ply, and as you say, sanded to shape around the outside.
I want to run a seperate obechi belting strip round the outside edge also so will have to sand off its thickness as I forgot when marking out the sponson!
regards
Clark
A pic of the obechi framing before bottom of sponson glued on, and also tidied the edges of the obechi and checked for fit again.
Now waiting on epoxy going off and will get the other three sections done.
Hi Clark,
Also interested to see this.
I thought of constructing an interior cradle, then Kim pointed out that is how Graupner do it for the 'Glasgow' and that it could be heavy.
Then Kim suggested 'keying' the lower sponson deck into the hull to compensate for pier/sponson bumpage, which seems a good idea.
Then I saw drawings of how real steamers were done ....
All the best
Hi Sandy,
when I permanently fix the sponson bases to the hull, (after I have made all of them!)I will have "blocks" hidden under where the houses will be, to give a good glueing area, and where the sponsons narrow at the fore and aft ends, my plan is to drill through the hull & into the sponson, from the inside, then epoxy threaded rod into the hole in the sponson, so when set I can put a nut on the rod inside the hull, securing that area.
Its a bit hard to explain, but I did something similar when fixing the wooden belting strip to my Lochiel's fibreglass hull.
Thats the plan anyway....will post any progress!
cheers
Clark
Hi Clark,
I'm sure you have a plan that will work so forgive me for this suggestion but might be of interst to others that plan to make their sponsons removeable.
I have used this method on my big Talisman (albeit using heavier nuts)
I have used 'T' nuts on the sponson side with socket screws through the hull with penny washers epoxied to the inside hull side to spread the load.
http://www.modelaccessories.co.uk/m2-captive-t-nut-10pcs.html
P.s. Will be intouch shortly, almost there with your wheels ;)
All the best & have a good Christmas.
Regards,
Kim
Hi Kim,
Thanks, all suggestions are very welcome. I have been thinking about using captive nuts ....or the threaded inserts you get in the white moulded electrical surface boxes, epoxied in place. (think they are 3.5mm)
Thats great about the wheels, Kim. I plan to get shaft /bearings done after the sponsons....I'm off work over New Year so hope to get a bit of progress & on Lochiel also.
Hope you all have a great Christmas,
Clark
I haven't read all the thread but I would have sent the hull back and asked for a good one. These things ain't cheap. You deserve the best for the money asked.
Martin
Hi Martin,
Yes you are quite correct, although in this case the problem was probably self inflicted as I had the hull in storage for quite some time in conditions that were not ideal...thats the second hull i have had to butcher/straighten out!
However i have learnt my lesson and the hull for my next build is perfect and stored away carefully on a flat surface.
all the best
Clark
Hi all,
Catching up on some work on the sponsons, as I had a break from modelling to have the cold
Anyway, sanded the outside edges back a bit with a minicraft sander, as I'm glueing a thin belting strip round the edge of the sponsons.
Epoxied 2.5mm threaded rod into sponsons for fixing through the hull with nuts/washers...the wooden glue blocks will be hidden under the houses. I think this will make the bases quite solid after its all glued & screwed up.
A pic or two...
Hi PD's
I have managed to come up with a method for making the removeable section of spring beam/belting, to facilitate shaft/paddle removal.
I carved up a plastic dry lining box, used for electrical sockets and switches, so that I have 2 sections for each sponson. first pic. Also I drilled and fitted the 3.5mm threaded inserts from this box, these will be epoxied in place for fixing the removeable section later.
2nd pic shows one of these sections in place. Will be glued & bolted in place.
3rd pic shows spring beam/sponson piece in place....the shaft for feathering gear will be fitted to the rear of this. Eventually the front ornamental "grille" of the paddle drum will be fitted to this also. Still got the outer belting facing to glue onto this piece.
Last pic showing a card mock up of paddle drum front. After shaft is fitted I will build the paddle drum, but will add the sponson houses later, as it will be easier to paint the hull without them in place. And of course all the wood will be well sealed.
cheers
Clark
It's surprising how many weird and wonderful odds and ends can be used in modelling with a bit of lateral thinking!
It's coming along very nicely Clark....
Regards
Eddy
Hi Clark, she is looking really good! I really like the chopped up linning box idea.
The Model Steamer Club have a couple of shows lined up for this year would be great to see you and your boats at them.
Oh yaeh and there is Paddler Day ... I hope you'll be comming this year.... a wedding is only a good excusse once .... ;)
All the best,
Kim
Hi all,
At last found some time for modelling! Since my last post I have made a few changes to the sponsons....I have done away with the removeable sections because
1. it was getting fiddley and a bit "Heath Robinson" anyway!
2. I had the shaft positions marked in the wrong place...it is actually just above belting level so the shaft will slide into place without fouling the sponsons...good result! Used 5mm stainless steel shaft with universal coupling ends as bearings.
I got a lovely set of 7 float wheels from Kim at Clyde Model Boats...haven't built them up yet but using a rim to check clearances as I build the framework for the sponson houses...this is on going at the moment. Hope to get this area done as I started it in January!
A few pics
Hi,
Kims wheels when made up do look great. she is looking great too ;D
Managed to get a bit more done, outer skin of plasticard on sponson houses, around balsa and plastic formers, and a start made on the paddle drums...a few pics
Hi all,
Getting close to painting time, :) have finished the paddle drums, just added ports today. I couldn't drill the ports out, as some will be inaccessable if they leak, so found that a paper punch produces 1/4" discs, punched them out of paper thin plasticard, stuck them to the hull, and will paint them gloss black/grey to simulate glass after the hull has been painted.
Next got to do a bit of work on the stanchions that hold the promenade deck at the bow, a bit of filling here and there, then primer.
Thanks to Gavin (marmion), I have sourced the blue colour for the hull, and got some green for the underbody. Can't wait to get some colour on the hull!!
A few pics
Clark
Looking good. I will get those pictures uploaded soon.
Cheers, Richard.
Now making a start on an area I have been avoiding, the promenade deck at the bow, that is supported on stanchions (10 each side, will be brass tubing/rod). I have tack glued a framework to the bow, so I can get the shape of the top deck & stanchion positions accurately marked/drilled. The challenge is to make this bit light and strong, however ther is a crew companionway between the two decks so that should stiffen the area I hope :-X
The plan is to build the framework for this area but not to fix it permanently to the hull till the main paint job has been done, and some detailing on the lower deck forward.
Clark
Hi Pds,
I have now made the framework for the promenade deck forward, this was done on top of some temporary supports that have now been removed.
The frame is 2.5 x 6.5mm styrene, now sitting on the stanchions, 1/16" brass tube with longer 1/32" rod inside. 1/32 holes have been drilled top and bottom to secure the stanchions.
I still have to trim the rod at the top coming through the waterway at the edge the hull.
The crew companionway has been made and this helps to support the deck also...I was worried that it would be flimsy, but its quite solid at the moment and its just sitting in place!
This section, along with stanchions will be set aside till after hull painting, when it will be glued permanently in place
A few pics
Clark
A very nicely done job Clark! It's looking very nice indeed...
Regards
Eddy
Beautifully done! Styrene looks like the way to go.
Don
Great piece of work Clark.
quality as always :azn:
Cheers guys, for the positive comments, I'm quite pleased with this progress, just got 3 squint stanchions to sort :P
Just back from a few days on Arran, was doing a bit of sniffing around to see if there were any records/photos of the "Lorne", seeing as she was the Arran winter steamer, but I didn't turn up any info about her. However a lovely builders half model of her fleetmate Duchess of Hamilton in the Brodick museum, so that helped with a few details. ;)
Clark
That's a cracking looking model coming together, can't wait to see it painted.
Hi pds
The weather has been fine for spraying in the garage since last weeks storm, so have managed to get the hull painted :)
Still got to brush paint the pale pink/blue round the windows, and add the double gold line round the hull and names bow and stern. Also need to pick out the ports in a dark glossy colour!
A pic of progress so far,
cheers
Clark
Hi,
I just love that colour scheme
Hi guys,
Yes I'm quite happy with the way the colours have turned out, its quite unusual....as I have only painted white/black hulls with red underbody before now!
The Caledonian steam packet Co. steamers only had the green underbody for a few years, early 1890's, then the more usual reddish colour after this time.
I used a slightly faded green as a few other 'greens' I tried looked too lurid and bright.
Now got to go and spray the rudder as I forgot about it yesterday ::)
Have managed to get the rudder painted, and the two gold lines (trimline) and names done (2 & 3mm BECC letters)
I must say I invented some new swear words doing this :D
There is something about late Victorian to early edwardian design that you have to admire, not just in this paddler. which is looking better and better in each picture
Hi all,
A little bit more progress today, blended in the sponson decks to the main promenade deck...a bit of a pain because these pieces are slightly curved. Waterways at the deck edge done with 0.75mm plasticard.
Sponsons ready for deck, which will be permanently fixed in this area.
Now onto the bow area to do some work and then paint the pale pink/blues round the saloon windows, and then glaze them.
cheers
Clark
Beautiful, - this is going to be one impressive model.
Regards,
Pete.
Looking good Fitz, well worth all the intricate, painstaking effort.
Stewart.
Hi All,
Being privileged enough to see this model in the flesh.. So to speak ...it's great to see her under the cover of paint!
That's a great job Clark! .... if it was me i think i'd actually be scared to put her on the water....
That said .. Keep going!
Regards,
Kim
Clark,
Your workmanship is superb. Can not wait to see the final result. Well done.
Robert
Hi guys,...
Thanks again for the kind comments...any critisisms welcome also, or point out any silly mistakes as this is my first big (1:48) paddler, and i'm finding info hard to come by on her!!
I'm glad to be making some progress on her now....its speeded up since I took over the dining room table...and I haven't got into trouble yet! :police:
Kim, no worries, she will be on Loch Eck in the spring, thats my goal!!
cheers
Clark
Hi all,
Some progress on the foredeck area, which had to be done before the top promenade deck and supporting stanchions are fixed in place.
Front of saloon painted pale pink, windows glazed, bollards, windlass and companionway down from prom. deck. A couple of crew and a doorknob here and there and I will get the prom. deck in place.
I did some testing with various makes of paint when mixing up my pale pink/blues, and I must say the "Railmatch" paints are great quality, I will use them for brushing from now on.
Windows and doors clear plastic sheet with sticky backed, wood effect vinyl sheet stuck on, and removed to show the clear glazing where required.
Bollards are plastruct tubing etc, I did a job lot, for my other build, MV Lochiel as well. Luckily enough Caldercraft do a windlass in 1:48 that was suitable, though I replaced some of the white metal with plastic to keep weight down.
A few pics before top deck goes on,
cheers
Clark
Clark,
First class, exhibition standard. Deck is fab. Do you have a planned completion date?
Thanks Robert,
To be honest the photos are quite kind to me, and there are several bits I could improve, just learning as I go along, mostly from other builds/members on here ;)
Re the deck, after some experiments, i settled on painting ply or plasticard with humbrol matt 103, then when dry washing over a diluted white coat with a sponge for a kind of random effect. Planks are marked with a 0.3mm drawing pencil, and randomly shaded in with watercolour pencils and a white chinagraph pencil before matt varnish.
Hope to have her sailing in the spring or summer at very latest (only a year later than planned!)
cheers
Clark
Managed to get some time back at the modelling table the past couple of days, so got the stanchions and prom deck fixed in place, and its nice and secure which I am pleased about!
So next I will continue the skirting around the new bit of deck and do the waterways, then get the pink/blues painted around the rest of the saloon windows and glaze them. I had previously cut all 63 (I think!) pieces of glazing out, so just got to stick the frames on before fixing them in place
cheers
Clark
That is looking lovely well done. Geo.
Looks great Clark.
How do you plan to do the lining?
Hi Richard,
I have a thin plastruct strip between each window, and a 1.5mm half round above also, so, basically I have masked and painted the half round blue, then I will paint round the windows pink and finally paint the verticals between blue. I did this on the saloon front, although my photography does not really show this up.
As far as I can tell from pictures, the sponson houses are just pink with no panelling detail like the Duchess of Rothesay for example, so thats good!
There is a little bit of panelling detail on the aft end of the saloon, between the three windows, I'm guessing at blue with brown border.
Just need to get each window with frame done and tried in position first.
cheers,
Clark
Hi PDs,
Finally managed to get the saloon sides painted and lined pale pink and blue, and all 72 windows glazed, just got sponson house ports and doors and that is me done up to promenade deck level. (excluding paddle box facings!)
Just making a steering servo mount, and messing about with the steering chains. The tiller arm and pulleys at the stern will be covered by a grating later.
I think Action electronics do a servo slow/travel device... I will look into that for the steering.
Thanks to Richard (Mercury) I have located a rigging plan which I should receive for my Birthday soon (I hope!) so that will help with the funnel etc.
Hoping to get onto my 7 float wheels from Kim at Clyde Model Boats soon, after I finish up a few loose ends on the hull.
cheers
Clark
Great progress Clark. How do you hold your windows material in place? Is it slotted in or glued on? Did you use the perspex on a backing that you proposed for the Locheil?
Hi Richard,
This time, on the inside of the saloon side, I glued a strip of plastruct between each window, vertically, (1.5mm x 2.5mm strips i think) so basically each window has its own "pocket" to fit into (snug fit) on the inside.
With the frame on the glazing it was then inserted into its pocket and carefully secured in place with 1.2 x 1.2mm plastruct L section glued to the vertical strips on the inside so the glazing is trapped and can't move or fall out....I hope ;D
Maybe this will explain better...
Thanks Clark. A neat solution.
Had a trial go at the paddlebox facings yesterday. I had the idea of getting these etched in brass, but decided to give plastic a go.
Made in two layers, the inner layer with vertical supports. the three holes are for small magnets that I am using to fix the facings. Then the outer layer with horizontal slats (1x1.5mm plastruct)
With the two layers sandwiched together, they seem quite strong, so will now do the other side before detail/paint.
cheers
Clark
Excellent work Clark and an interesting idea with the use of magnets. Look forward to seeing your efforts with the detailed paddle crest. Any ideas how this could be done at this scale?
Thanks Robert,
Quite pleased with the facing so far, and happy that they seem sturdy enough.
I heard about someone using magnets to hold down a deck hatch, so thought I'd try them. Very small 3mm round 1.5mm deep neodym magnets. I'm hoping they work ok as I don't want visible fixings showing.
Re the crests, I'm not sure how to do them yet, I do have the pics of your excellent painting, and a few of the crest itself, but I want to see/measure/photo it myself. I found out it went to the Clydeside museum eventually (thanks Stuart!). Thats now shut but the Scottish Maritime Museum oversee some of the exhibits so hopefully I can arrange a viewing at some point. Will get in touch with them soon.
I looked at it countless times in the waiting room at Gourock pier over the years...always forgot the camera and tape measure!!
that looks great, I made mine in 'layers' too.
Hi Mick,
Yes i remembered your Princess Elizabeth boxes/facings from your thread, I didn't have the black plasticard though, I will give them a dark primer coat first!
I've used those tiny magnets for dollshouse fittings but it never occurred to me to use them in boats!!
Great idea Clark...many thanks for that!!
Hi Clark,
Think you were right going with Plasticard ... no point in recommending Laser cutting to you as you are a whizz kidd with a scalpel!
Look forward to getting on the water soon.
Regards,
Kim
Clark,
If you are able to take a good digital photograph of the original paddle crest then this can be sent to a cnc machine router via a jpeg file which will be able to cut it out for you. You can also send a mirror image for the other side. We use a plastic model board which cuts easily and gives good detail. Just an idea.
Quote from: rmcluckie on January 28, 2012, 10:11:25 AM
Clark,
If you are able to take a good digital photograph of the original paddle crest then this can be sent to a cnc machine router via a jpeg file which will be able to cut it out for you. You can also send a mirror image for the other side. We use a plastic model board which cuts easily and gives good detail. Just an idea.
True, but at this scale you will probably need to re draw or loose a fair bit of resolution on the photo
If i can help just shout
Kim
I would use my Robocutter to cut this in thin styrene using a scan of the drawing from which the 'Silhouette' software will be able to trace the cut lines needed.
I have done my paddle wheel casings for my 'Presto' by this method but have still to do the crest.
I'd be happy to give it a go for you if you can send me the artwork to scan or even a jpeg you have.
As I don't know the original I could be underestimating the complexity?
Quote from: Spankbucket on January 28, 2012, 08:39:09 PM
I would use my Robocutter to cut this in thin styrene using a scan of the drawing from which the 'Silhouette' software will be able to trace the cut lines needed.
I have done my paddle wheel casings for my 'Presto' by this method but have still to do the crest.
I'd be happy to give it a go for you if you can send me the artwork to scan or even a jpeg you have.
As I don't know the original I could be underestimating the complexity?
If you have a look back - Page 2 reply # 53 there is a pic ....
Regards,
Kim
Hi guys,
Thanks for all the help/suggestions re the crests. Much appreciated.
I guess on the model they will be roughly about 45mm x 25mm or thereabouts. They were quite a focal point on the real ship, they were taken off the during the winter to prevent damage in storms.
I will fire off an email to the SMM today and see if they can tell me where it is (stored) and if I can get access to it for some measurements and photos, and take it from there.
Quote from: Talisman on January 28, 2012, 09:41:31 AM
Hi Clark,
Think you were right going with Plasticard ... no point in recommending Laser cutting to you as you are a whizz kidd with a scalpel
Hahaha you should see the state of my fingers and the size of my plasticard "scraps" box!! :D
Quote from: djcf on January 28, 2012, 11:35:21 PM
Hi guys,
Thanks for all the help/suggestions re the crests. Much appreciated.
I guess on the model they will be roughly about 45mm x 25mm or thereabouts. They were quite a focal point on the real ship, they were taken off the during the winter to prevent damage in storms.
I will fire off an email to the SMM today and see if they can tell me where it is (stored) and if I can get access to it for some measurements and photos, and take it from there.
Quote from: Talisman on January 28, 2012, 09:41:31 AM
Hi Clark,
Think you were right going with Plasticard ... no point in recommending Laser cutting to you as you are a whizz kidd with a scalpel
Hahaha you should see the state of my fingers and the size of my plasticard "scraps" box!! :D
Your fingers are still attached ? ... stop moaning and get back to building lol
Speak soon
Kim
Clark, found this photo today in my old photo album. Hope it helps. Robert
When I replied earlier I did't realise that it was a detailed relief carving.
To replicate this a carved wooden master could be made and then a resin mould taken off it. From this mould copies could be made in Fimo or other similar modelling clay.
Robert, thanks for the photo. That will be helpful. I have not had any luck tracking down the crest, I think the SMM is shut over the winter.
Bernie, the plan is to have a go at building them up in wood, and see how that goes.
Just got the rigging plan, so will probably go onto building the funnel, bridge and deckouse next, and prom deck. Removeable deck supports and a motor mount have been made this weekend.
cheers
Clark
Quote from: Spankbucket on February 05, 2012, 08:46:53 PM
When I replied earlier I did't realise that it was a detailed relief carving.
Now you understand my reasoning on lowering resolution?...
As you said cnc could produce a 3d interpretation but at this scale we need to get a dead on photo at lower resolution....
Direct moulding will only produce a 1:1 moulding?
Regards,
Kim
Can you confirm if this is the Marchioness of Lorne? No paddle crests and the forward main deck saloon seems longer. Was it rebuilt?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44850481@N05/4420085920/
Kim...yes my suggestion would yield a 1:1 moulding (unless a 3d pantograph is used...beyond me unfortunately!).
I have used the method I suggested to mould, in white metal, a rose for a harpsichord I made a few years back...I carved the original in lime.
Quote from: rmcluckie on February 11, 2012, 09:58:11 AM
Can you confirm if this is the Marchioness of Lorne? No paddle crests and the forward main deck saloon seems longer. Was it rebuilt?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44850481@N05/4420085920/
Yes Robert, that is her. The fore saloon was lengthened in 1909 I think. The photo must be post 1912 as she has extra lifeboat aft. Also the bridge deckhouse was enlarged at some point, and the after deckhouse enlarged and moved slightly aft over the companionway. I'm modelling her as built.
Re the crest, I got an email from Scottish maritime museum confirming they have the crest, its not available to the public till the summer (the building is getting re roofed, in the hands of the contractors) so I will pop down to Irvine then for a look. In the meantime the model will be crestless as the real ship was in winter!!
Facings now finished (not including crests)and painted, ports and lining added. Most clyde paddlers had a nameboard along the top curve of the facing, but the MoL and Duchess of Hamilton had the ports instead.
Now making templates for the decks. Mast made and suitable tubing found for the funnel, got a spray can of Ford prairie yellow to try on the funnel.
Paddle parts removed from their sheet, still got to file off any remaining tags before assembly begins.
cheers
Clark
Clark- what a wonderful build-I just took a bit and wandered through all 12 pages so far!! The details and solutions you have employed are imaginative and well thought out.
The color scheme is elegant - the green and blue were made for each other.
Hi Clark,
She really is coming together...
Any info on how you did your ports ?
Regards
Kim
Thanks for that Greg, its been a big learing curve so far, with a lot of help from others...I wouldn't have got this far otherwise! Hopefully the next paddler will progress a bit faster and smoother.
Yes the Caledonian colour scheme is elegant, from an era when there was colour on the Clyde. I hope to model several paddlers from the 1880s / 1890s...all my favorites ;)
Hi Kim, ports are a bit of a cheat, I didn't want to drill them out and possibly weaken the facing, so they are black letraset dots rubbed on with BECC brass port decals over the top. I think the ports on the real ship were open to let any spray out.
The ports on the sponsons are just brass tube with black plasticard disc glued in and gloss varnished.
Finally found some time to start on my seven float wheels from Kim at Clyde model boats, so started with drilling the hubs with the brass guides to make sure the holes are the same on both sides, a good idea!
Attached rims to boss with supplied nuts/bolts, I also made up a wooden jig/sponson to mount the paddles on, to later work out eccentric disc centres, so I don't have to do this work in situ on the boat.
I made up my own floats, rather than use the ones supplied, because I wanted square edged floats without the rounded off corners, so I made these out of ply. Pic shows float brackets bent to shape and attached, and eccentric discs/arms bolted/soldered together.
Just done a trial assembly of the starboard wheel, everything seems to move smoothly, so will later try in the boat, and work on the feathering centres before trimming bolts etc.
I must say the wheels came together very easily, so far, and they look the part ;)
A few pics of progress so far
cheers
Clark
Hi PD's.....well Clark....those wheels certainly do look the part.... :kewlpics .......congratulations to the owner & manufacturer :clap .....Derek
That makes me want to get nack in the workshop. looking very nice
Hi Clark,
They look good, are you going to paint the rims or leave as brass? I have to say i'm tempted to leave them as brass on my Juno.
Regards,
Kim
Hi Kim,
Yes I am just going to leave them brass, they should darken down naturally I would imagine, and knowing me I would get paint in all the wrong places :D
I did a quick mock up today, both wheels/ feathering gear very free running, (just had to trim one or two of my floats slightly), so I'm well happy with them.
Did a bit of research about the wheel colour on the real steamer, because the underbody was green, I wondered if the wheels were green also, or maybe just black, but apparently they were red lead, so I used humbrol 70 on the floats.
Clark, I am following this construction with great interest. Keep up the good work. Wheels look smart.
hi pd's,
Back to the model now, after a month of working in the garden and other such tasks... good weather has its down side :D
Anyway have done some butchery under the paddle facings and made a pair of removeable brackets with the eccentric centres, basically a brass plate with 3mm nut and bolt with a 4mm brass sleeve over it.
After a bit of experimenting I found a position for the centres I was happy with.
Heading up to the prom deck next, I have made this in 3 bits, all the works will be under the centre bit.
a couple of shots of the wheels with eccentric centres in place
cheers
Clark
Clark,
Your wheels in place look good .. the feathering looks good ... I'm sure the garden looks great... but come on man where are your priorities :)
Less Chrysanthemum more construction ...
Regards,
Kim
to go on (while in day of mind set)
..
Ian, when your finished with Nack can you send him / her up here ?
Ok , i will stop back to normality in the morning...
Regards
Kim
Well Kim, I have been looking back at our posts. :breakcomp We both started our projects about the same time autumn 2009. I know you have been otherwise engaged. But we must try harder to sail at paddler day 2012. :goodluck R.G.Y.
Quote from: R.G.Y. on April 07, 2012, 01:13:03 AM
Well Kim, I have been looking back at our posts. :breakcomp We both started our projects about the same time autumn 2009. I know you have been otherwise engaged. But we must try harder to sail at paddler day 2012. :goodluck R.G.Y.
RGY... Now i'm a simple guy and easily confused...
Anyway ... If you mean buy my range of paddlers .. it be nice to seee something on the water .. then this might just be the year!
If your refering to Clark ( this build) then i'm right behind you ... to the point of offering a seat in the car to get him there!
Regards
Kim
YESALL THREE OF US. :gathering I will be there this year? but there is always an if , IF my health is OK, IF I can get a mortgage to but petrol in the car. :hehe R.G.Y.
Hi pds,
a bit more progress, today I stepped the mast and funnel at the correct rake, of course these are removeable and can now be detailed/painted, now that I know they fit into the model properly!
three companionway stairs have been built, one each side of funnel, and one aft of where the engine room would be on the real ship.
The decks are getting painted and will be ready for drawing the planks when dry. Also received a lovely pair of Quaycraft lifeboats.
So after the decks finished, its onto the bridge, after deckhouse, paddlebox landing platforms, railings etc.
Hope to get floatation tests and trials done soon.
Now off to have a beer in the sun ;)
a few pics in the garden today minus decks
cheers
Clark
The model looks superb Clark!
How come you got fine sunny weather today? It's been overcast, windy, and bloody cold here!! :(
Regards
Eddy
Cheers Eddy!
We've had it cold NE wind for ages now, but dry and bright. Avoided all the heavy rain parts of England got/are getting.
Past couple of days nice and warm though, I;m making the most of it, it won't last!
Super model Clark. First class work. Will you be fitting out the interiors.
Robert.
Quote from: Eddy Matthews on May 04, 2012, 03:14:13 AM
The model looks superb Clark!
How come you got fine sunny weather today? It's been overcast, windy, and bloody cold here!! :(
Regards
Eddy
Eddy,
I set of this morning at 6am in T shirt ... arrived down your way at about 11am and it was freezing!!
I missed about 50 % of summer up here ... Hay ho...
Regards
Kim
We'll have to try and get together next time you come down Kim.... It's been ages since we last had a chance to catch up on things!
Eddy
hi Robert,
and thanks for the kind comments. Re the interiors, I will wait and see how the weight goes when she's fitted out, but at the very least I will get some interior work done where you can see down the companionways.
Kim, its that warm here on the Clyde coast that the grass is starting to grow, honest! :D :D 8)
Hi pds,
Got a bit more building done this week, so far have got the basic construction done on the chartroom, which will have the bridge above, and the after deckhouse, half of which was the pursers office, and the rest was a "private room"....just what were those victorians getting up to in there :o :D! All made of 1mm plasticard sheet.
Holes cut in the prom deck for funnel and mast, had a mock up with vents in place to see how it all looked.
The funnel was a bit of pvc plumbing pipe, which was the right dia., just had to thin the walls at the top with a dremmel and sanding drum, and mocked up the inner funnel uptake with some smaller dia tube. I had to spray the funnel with adhesion promoter before primer, that should help the final buff colour stick!!
a few pics
cheers
Clark
Hi. This is a wonderful build, With very good photo.s as well. Well done. Prentice.
It is looking good. Keep going.
great looking progress
Hello all,
Summer is never a good time for me to be working on a model, too much else going on, but I found the time to get a bit more done...
Got the funnel finished and painted ( after a bit of experimenting with different shades of buff/yellow i settled on humbrol no. 7). Added the steam pipe and whistle. Just got to put four stay rings on it.
I have put a bit of moulding detail on both deckhouses with various plastruct. These will be mainly white with moulding/panelling picked out in pale blue/pink. Awaiting steps from James Lane display models as i couldn't make them fine enough
Sponson decking has been made (not stuck down yet) chocks are ready for the lifeboats, got the davits to make. All stanchions have been ordered again from James Lane.
Started the grating for over the rudder stock/tiller arm, have decided all gratings will be made with etched brass mesh, as I cant get wooden ones fine enough. There are plenty of these, on the bridge wings, on sponsons etc so they will be quite noticeable.
Got her outside for a few pics today.
Clark
Continues to look great Clark. Can't imagine the CSP colours being used today - more's the pity. Looking forward to seeing her on the water.
Richard
Thanks Richard,
True about the colours, the crews must have been kept busy upkeeping that paintwork...and not a corporate logo in sight, thankfully 8)
Will float her as soon as I get a kids paddling pool for tests, then I can decide what battery pack to get, and sort out the internals.
Stanchions have arrived so that job is looming!
Clark
PS how goes the Kylemore?
Kylemore is going slowly due a lot of travel during the summer and our move from Singapore to Korea. We are now in our new apartment so I will get going again once the boat arrives in our shipment.
Hi pds....back at the modelling bench after a break, & this project is now so behind schedule I can't believe it! Hope to push on over the winter & get her done for spring.
So the last week or so I have made the chocks for the Quaycraft lifeboats to sit on, and made 4 davits from 3/32" brass rod. This was tapered at the end by puting it in a drill, and spinning it between 2 files, then i made a drawing of the davit and bent all 4 to the same shape, they still need to be trimmed to length. Just waiting on split pins to use as brackets to fix them to the sponson side.
Also the deckhouses have been painted white with blue/pink lining/paneling masked and painted, then varnished...glad thats done! The wooden stairs to the top of the houses I bought, but I narrowed them down and thinned all the components down to give a less chunky look.
Some gratings have been made, on sponsons and over steering quadrant, bow windlass has been rebuilt into a capstan, and some handrails fitted to sponsons. Just about to start the paddle box landing platforms and steps....need to keep the progress up ;)
a few pics
cheers
Clark
Clark. This is turning into one fine model. Your attention to detail and modelling skills are superb. I look forward to seeing photos of the completed model. Keep up the good work. Hope it will be finished in 2013.
Beautiful, - look forward to following progress.
Pete.
This Is a very fine model. With photo's to match!!! Prentice.
thanks guys for the comments, and it feels good to have the time to get to the modelling table again!
Got some bits and pieces done since my last post, my small brass split pins arrived, and they make perfect brackets for the lifeboat davits. I have drilled holes for these and tried a dry fit of the davits in place, but these have been removed till i finish the steps/ landing platforms.
One compromise that i mentioned much earlier in the build was the lower deck portholes. As a few would be inaccessable on the finished model, i didn't drill them out in case any leaked, so i settled for thin plasticard discs glued to the hull. these were sprayed over with hull blue colour so I finished these off today by rubbing black Letraset discs onto the ports, and sealing with gloss varnish. Looks not too bad and another job I have been avoiding out of the way ;)
more soon,
cheers
Clark
Hi Clark,
She is really getting there. I admire the effort your putting into her.
I have a question .. how did you do your gratings?
Regards,
Kim
Hi Kim,
I made the gratings with scalelink 1mm square mesh on plasticard bases, the grating over the steering gear is a ply base.
The holes in a grating are roughly 1 1/2" square and the wood in between about the same, which equates to about 0.8mm or 1/32" in 1:48 ratio if I got my sums right!
I could never do that in wood so I tried the mesh. After painting the main colour I put a thinned darker coat of brown over the mesh to emphasize the square holes, wiping the excess off.
Still got the bridge gratings to do so I can post some pics showing the process....will be doing that soon.
cheers
Clark
Hi all,
A few pics of progress on the landing platforms and steps on top of the port paddle drum.
This has proved to be quite awkward to get looking right, so I ended up drawing a template and sticking it behind the drum so I had a reference to get the steps positioned correctly, also drew some ref. lines on the drum. A bit of messing about for a few steps!
Still got the supports under each step to do, and railings etc. (and the other side!)
I like to keep a scale figure handy, just to make sure things don't look too out of proportion!
Clark
Cracking progress :coffee
Hi pds,
Well have got the dust sheets of the model again, recently have not had the time to do any work on her.
So this week I have added the reinforcing stanchions to the bulwarks forward, I should have done this before the top deck structure was attached - lesson learned - just got a few more bits and pieces to put on the fore deck.
Paddle box landing platforms and steps are done, just the rails to do in that area.
Davits have been temporarily installed so I can get the lifeboat/chocks properly positioned. I used split pins for the davit braces, these will be trimmed at final installation.
Next, i will do some work on the bridge deck, then its the railings, deck seats, rigging and various other small details...at least I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now :D
Clark
Clark, - that is looking magnificent!!
Regards,
Pete.
I agree. Just superb. Great attention to detail with excellent model making skills. Do you have a target completion date? Thanks for keeping us all up to date with your progress.
Thank you both for the kind comments, as i have said before i think the photos flatter - there are bits i'm not too happy with but its part of the learning process for the next model.
Robert, aiming for completion before the end of the summer. I have had too much other stuff to do for the last 5/6 months, but hope to fit in more model time now, especially as I can see the finish line. There is an annual model show in Dunoon each autumn so I want her ready this year!
I have made a start on the wooden bouyancy tank seats, i can't put it off any longer! The 1890's versions of these seats look a bit different to the later versions, for example those seen on the present Waverley. I found some good photos of those on board P&A Campbell's Cambria so I was able to scale them from there.
The 11 seat carcasses have been made still got the planking to do, I have a idea how to do this quickly but will need to experiment first!
Also the bridge deck is finished with gratings and nav. light boards, just need to source/make telegraphs wheel binnacle etc
Clark
This is a wonderful model for detail and photo's to match, It is what I look up to.
Those seats are not easy to do. As others have said; Great model making skills.
Prentice.
Clark - it just gets better and better!
Pete
Hi pds
After quite a bit of experimenting the 13 deck seats are ready now for the finish to be applied, I ended up using evergreen sheet with grooves 1mm apart for the slatted part of the seat - I couldn't manage to get wood to look right with the small sizes required for the slats.
Hopefully with various paint washes and finishing with watercolour pencils the styrene will look woody! Then rope grab lines etc after.
Couldn't get a decent photo ::)
Clark
Hi pds,
Not been posting much, but some progress, now aiming for a mid - November finish as I want to display her at a local model show all going well.
So all seats finished and a start has been made on the railings, I'm doing the trickier bits first, just got the starboard paddlebox area to do then its the relatively straight-forward (I hope!) deck edge rails, which are two bar with a wooden capping on top.
A few photos - I have removed the davits/lifeboats till the rails are finished.
Then onto smaller details/rigging etc.
Not rushing into getting her afloat at this point, servo mount is made, motor mount is getting made, and access is good, so can fit her out later.
Clark
Hi PD's........& yes Clark.....all of the brass work is up to the usual high standard.....all straight & square & true etc.... :clap ............Derek
Beautiful workmanship. Looking forward to seeing the finished model on the water.
Andy
Yes all looking very good as usual. With good photo's.
Prentice.
Clark, - that looks wonderful, - exceptional job.
Regards,
Pete.
Clark, the attention to detail is superb. Hope you manage to finish the model on time for the show. When and where will this be?
Thanks guys for your interest and comment. Its been a bit of trial and error as it is the first time I have used split pin type stanchions - I got good progress tonight on the starboard paddlebox area so will be moving on to the deck edge rails asap.
Robert, the model show is a small local one in the Burgh Hall in Dunoon, with models (not all maritime) from the Cowal area. I'm not sure of the exact date yet, either the 9th or 16th Novemeber, hopefully I will find out over this weekend, but I'm off work both weekends anyway!
Clark
Hi all,
Just a final update on progress - construction of the model has been completed recently - although no motor/batteries are fitted at present and she has not sailed yet. I have another project to complete and that is going to be finished first.
Personally i like puting the finishing touches to a model as it seems to come to life,
I had a bit of a problem making the paddlebox crests, thankfully after getting permission to scan Robert's fantastic painting on page 2 of this thread, I was able to shrink the image to make small crests, photo paper mounted on plasticard backing and varnished.
Here are a few not very good pics....I will try to get some better ones soon
cheers for now,
Clark
Brilliant finish Clark. Good to see her completed. Any pictures of her on the water?
What's next? Do you plan to finish off your Locheil?
Clark,
The model looks superb. Glad that you managed to make use of the crest photos for your paddle boxes. From your photographs it does look like they turned out very well and they certainly complete the paddle boxes to your usual standard of workmanship.
This model is going to look great in the water. Look forward to the next set of photos of the paddler in action.
You must be very pleased with your efforts and the final result. A great achievement. Well done indeed.
Robert
bonjour
The finishes are very beautiful, he is going to look good on the water. :bravo