Automatic Steam & Gas regulators?

[mattk]

I'm looking for more information on automatic steam pressure regulators and propane/butane gas regulators.  I just bought Stan Bray's book which briefly discusses these devices.  Now I want more detail.
 
It appears that there are several things one might want such a device to do:
 
* You could regulate gas pressure based on steam pressure, presumably turning the flame up when the steam pressure drops.
 
* You might turns the main gas jet completely off and on; relying on a pilot light in the latter case.
 
* You might shut the gas off permanently if the steam pressure suddenly drops to zero.  This way a pressure leak wouldn't cause your boat to catch fire.
 
* Perhaps the most obvious use would be to deliver constant steam pressure to your engine, or constant gas pressure to your burner.
 
Are these devices commonly used?  What's the most common plumbing arrangement?
 
Is there a manufacturer's web site with more information?  
 
Are there plans and instructions available for making and testing these devices?
 
-Matt

[Bierjunge]

Cheddar used to produce their Automatic Boiler Control (A.B.C.),
regulating the gas/steam pressure exactly as you describe, plus
regulating the boiler water level using optical sensors on the water
gauge.
But Cheddar isn't anymore. I understand some items of their range will
soon be produced again by Stuart, but I don't know if this applies to the
A.B.C. as well.
Anyway, googling for it will show you a few pictures of this system.

Moritz

[derekwarner_decoy]

delete

[malcolmbeak]

Go to Downloads; Steam Engine Articles;  Malcolm beak and you should find some articles on automatic water level control and gas control.

Malcolm

[steamboatmodel]

Malcolm's Steam Engine Articles are probably the best, which can be downloaded and most of which are in Stan Bray's book. There is an article in Live Steam & outdoor railroading (March/April 2007 Volume 41 no.2) by Jesse Livingston starting on page 36 called Gas Burner Regulator, but if you have Malcolm's article and Stan's Book it wont and much. The Cheddar Automatic Boiler Control (A.B.C.) as far as I could tell from the advertisement used a Microcontroller to control servo positions to open and close valves according to sensor inputs.
Regards,
Gerald

[mattk]

That's just the kind of info I was after.  Thanks for the help.

[Bierjunge]

A few days ago, in http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3345.0 Derek raised the question on the gas and steam regulator produced by Dieter Laspe in Neuss, Germany.
By coincidence, I received the one I had ordered just today, so I don't miss to show a few pictures, although I had not the time to test it yet.
I don't know where Malcolm Beak's excellent article has gone in the download section, but anyway, Laspe's regulator seems to follow a similar principle: The first regulator reduces the gas pressure, independently from the pressure in the cartouche, to let's say 0,5 bar (adjustable). The second regulator further reduces this pressure if the steam pressure in the boiler reaches an adjustable threshold. See the diagram in one of the pictures.
It doesn't look as classic steampunk as the Anton unit, but most gas tanks aren't displayed either. The whole unit is neatly manufactured, weighs 175 gr and costs some 110 EUR.

Best regards, Moritz

[Bierjunge]

Hi Derek,

1) I sort of guessed the yellow components with my questions...but have not seen an example like this..if you wish to post detail of your gas regulator system & would be welcomed ......I have a French ANTON gas regulator which is physically totally different...but works on the same dual principle

Although the question was not adressed directly to me, I feel free to show a few more details on Dieter Laspe's gas and steampressure regulator (which I received just today) at http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2850.msg14896#msg14896

Regards, Moritz

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's & thanks Moritz for the detail on the "Dieter Laspe" gas/steam controller

It is certainly a different control concept over the ANTON V71 unit...however I suspect with similar gas & water savings etc & the costing is certainly similar to the V71

regards

[Hankwilliams]

Hello,

My experiences with the Laspe Steam and gas regulatur are quite good, I have used it in 4 steamboats.
However the function after a while of use ( 12 - 15 hours) is deteriorating. I suppose, the reason is the impurity of the gas.
Then I have to take apart the gas regulator and clean it. After this the function is at well as at is new.

In 2 boats now I put in a gas filter between gas tank and regulator, I hope this problem is now solved.

Greetings

Thomas

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's & thanks Thomas for your comments ....but  ... the gas you using is not causing the problem....

Conventional 70/30 propane/butane is filtered to  0.5 um particulate size...when you strip your gas regulator....what do you find? & what is the functionality issue?

Could this be a  delamination of the regulator diaphram?

This does not make sence ........Derek

[malcolmbeak]

I had to go looking for my articles - they are now mostly on page 3 of Members Submisions in the downloads. Only the article titles are shown, not who submitted them.

Malcolm

[Hankwilliams]

Hello,

also from other steamboatfans who use the Laspe gas and steam controller I have heard about the same problems of deterioting functions. Are this different by the Anton or Cheddar controllers?

The gas must cause a pollution at the fine membrans and valves of the controller.  When I have cleaned this parts with alcohol, the controller works allright again.

Regards

Thomas

[Eddy Matthews]

I had to go looking for my articles - they are now mostly on page 3 of Members Submisions in the downloads. Only the article titles are shown, not who submitted them.

Malcolm

Just click on the article name, and you'll clearly see who sent the article Malcolm....

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's......both components in the Laspe twin element regulator set are each larger than the singular ANTON V71 [20 diameter x 40 high overall]

I cannot find a WEB site for Laspe Steam and gas regulatur , but from the posting by Moritz ...... http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2850.msg14896#msg14896 ....the components appear to be specifically made for the purpose & visually of good quality 

ANTON confirms in writing that the spare V71 membrane kit as supplied has a 16 mm diameter neoprene diaphragm.....

Neoprene is commonly regarded as synthetic nitrile or rubber, however the basic elastomer neoprene is confirmed as subject to 5% swelling after exposure to alcohol [ISO Standard tests] - the swelling is permenant - the elastomer also looses strength

I would be more inclined to go back to the manufacturer & discuss  the technical problems you are experiencing