Suter hull?

[Eddy Matthews]

Following on from my questions on constructing a paddlewheel for the "Suter", I also have a question about the hull on the model.... The photo below shows a static model of the boat with the hull dimensions exactly as they were on the real vessel. It can be clearly seen that the hull is VERY shallow! In my opinion far too shallow for a working model!!

So to get a reasonable displacement to carry the weight of drive batteries, motor, RC gear etc, I was thinking of increasing the depth of the hull.... But how much? 1.5 times the depth of real boat, twice the depth of the real boat?

And if I increase the depth of the hull, will that interfere with the flow of water to the sternwheel?

Your comments and suggestions would be welcome!

Regards
Eddy

[mjt60a]

That's a good question, I made mine deep enough that the battery I intend to use will be entirely below the waterline - though I'm not making an american sternwheeler so it was deeper to start with and only meant adding about 3/4 inch to the depth

[towboatjoe]

What scale are you building it in? Remember it's a flat hull and it will float a lot. I was thinking the Suter model was r/c. I was trying to remember the guy's name who built it. He sent me several photos, but I misplaced his name and email.

Most sternwheel towboats only had a freeboard of about a foot. The Lady Lois has a simular hull and I didn't modify it. I mounted everything on the main deck instead of down into the hull and I filled the hull with styrofoam.

[Eddy Matthews]

I'm building it at 1:32 scale (3/8" = 1'). At that scale it gives a beam of 10" (255mm) and a total length including the paddlewheel of approx 55" (1400mm). The model in the photo was built as a static exhibit by George Britnell who was kind enough to let me have a copy of the drawings he made for the model.

Using the scale hull dimensions at 1:32 gives it a draft of about 1" (25mm) with with less than 1/4" (6mm) freeboard!  Is your Lady Lois really THAT shallow Joe?

Regards
Eddy

[towboatjoe]

The Lady Lois hull draft is 46 inches with 16 inch freeboard at the lowest part so that makes the hull from deck to bottom 1 7/16 inch in 1:32 scale. From the size, Suter should have about a 5 foot deep hull under her. Lois is 100 x 20. The Verity was 130 x 40 with a draft of 61 inches.

I'd say if you want to increase the hull depth to 1 3/4 inch and put styrofoam in the hull like I did, you won't have any problem and it will still look accurate. I use the same styrofoam used in insulating homes usually found in 1/4 to 3 inch thick sections. You don't ever have to worry about sinking either.

It is best to mound the motor and gears to operate the pitmans on the main deck to align with the cranks on the wheels.

[Eddy Matthews]

Thanks Joe, extremely helpful as ever!

Filling the entire hull with foam sounds like a good idea, with such a shallow draft and a relatively wide beam I can't see any stability problems with things mounted that little bit higher... And as you say, the motors and pitman arms etc will have to be mounted at deck level to get the drive line correct anyway.

Regards
Eddy

[jock]

Just a question, filling the hull with won't increase the freeboard of the hull in fact it would decrease it because of the small weight increase, so do you add the foam to proctect the boat incase of sinking?

I think there is a software program available to calculate the carrying capacity of a hull, I think it is called HULL by someone called carlson?  I'll chase it down .

Keeping the weight as low as possible will help with stability.

[jock]

Found two free programs

 Carene hull designing and lofting software
http://www.epoxy-resins.co.uk/Carene/carene.htm

Hull
http://www.carlsondesign.com/#Fun_Shareware

[Eddy Matthews]

Just a question, filling the hull with won't increase the freeboard of the hull in fact it would decrease it because of the small weight increase, so do you add the foam to proctect the boat incase of sinking?

I realise it won't increase the freeboard Jock. My other interest is scale fast electric models and they are generally stuffed full of as much foam as I can get in them - That way they can flood totally and they'll never sink! They will sit very low in the water, but there's no danger of them ever going to the bottom of the lake.... With a model such as "Suter", the low freeboard is a concern, so foam seems like a prefectly good idea to prevent a possible disaster!

I think there is a software program available to calculate the carrying capacity of a hull, I think it is called HULL by someone called carlson?  I'll chase it down.

Yes I've heard of the program before.

Keeping the weight as low as possible will help with stability.

Yes it will, but the distance from the bottom of the hull to the main deck is less than 2" in this model. The drive system HAS to be mounted at deck level to get the driveline correct, so it isn't like a narrow beamed relatively deep drafted sidewheel paddler where shifting the  weight to deck level would be a MAJOR problem.

Regards
Eddy

[Eddy Matthews]

I've been to my local model shop and bought the materials I need to construct the hull for the "Suter" today - Work should commence in the next week or so, and I'll post photos here as I progress.....

The biggest surprise of all came in the post this morning! 5 days ago I ordered a steam engine and a steam whistle sound module from the USA and they arrived this morning! Absolutely amazing!!! I've never known anything arrive from the States in less than 10 days, never mind 5!!

Oh and there was another pleasant surprise too - The customs and excise didn't charge any VAT (Value Added Tax, for our foreign friends). So the goods were cheaper than I was expecting! Hopefully that's a good omen?

Regards
Eddy

[Khephre]

Eddy, have you bought RAM RC sound cards?

If so, I'd be interested in your comments once you've had a play around with them. From what you've already said the order processing and postal service sounds great.

I've used Craig Talbot's ACTion Kits in the past but I must say that the steam whistle sound effect in particular is somewhat less than spectacular in my limited experience. And the Kiwi Dollar (disparagingly referred to here as the South Pacific Peso) is pretty strong against the greenback at the moment so buying anything US is increasingly appealing.

Many thanks and good luck with the Suter. I look forward to seeing progress posted.

Cheers for now
Tony
Auckland, NZ

[Eddy Matthews]

Eddy, have you bought RAM RC sound cards?

If so, I'd be interested in your comments once you've had a play around with them. From what you've already said the order processing and postal service sounds great.

Tony
Auckland, NZ

Hi Tony,

Yes they are the RAM units - Though I bought them from http://harbormodels.com as RAM don't do online ordering. I'll have a play around with them later today and let you know my opinions on them.

I've heard the ACTion units at model boat shows around the country, and I've always thought they sounded too synthetic (at least to my ear). If the RAM units sound like their online demo's of the sounds I'll be more than happy!

After reading through the blurb that comes with the RAM units, they do have some nice features - I'll explain more about them when I've done some testing....

Regards
Eddy

[Eddy Matthews]

Hi Guys,

Well I've made a start on the hull for the "Suter". Some of the framework has been cut out of balsa, and I hope to start putting it together on monday. I've increased the depth of the hull slightly (about 3/8" or 10mm) which should give that little bit extra to play with so the model doesn't sit too low in the water - It will still sit VERY low, as all of these sternwheelers did, but I should have enough bouyancy to fit everything I need to.

Because the hull is so shallow, the whole hull will be filled with polystyrene foam after sealing all the wood with resin. The deck will then be glued on making a totally watertight container.... The motor and other gear will be fitted on top of the deck inside the superstructure. So the model should be unsinkable - famous last words! :-)

Once the basic hull is constructed, I'll try to get a few photos of it before the deck is fitted, so watch this space!

[Eddy Matthews]

Here's the first stage in building the hull for the "Suter".  Now that the basics are done, the hull will be covered in glass fibre, the inside will be sealed with resin, and then the deck will be attached...

[mjt60a]

Oooh, good, another model under construction