Styrene paddlebox material

[Derek Warner]

Decoy's paddle box's will be 5 1/4" diameter x 2 1/4" wide - and yes constructed
from styrene sheet & styrene angle iron reinforcement

The wooden planked sponsons themselves are to scale and very strong so the
paddle box structure will not necessarily have any loading on it and even a mid river
collision should not damage them

I think Decoy's paddle box's were skinned with steel plate (more assumptions, and
possibly from 1/8" plate) so @ 1:25 scale would give me 0.005", but when I feel 0.005"
styrene sheet it is pretty flimsy - I sort of get the impression if I use the 0.005" I will
need a lot of small glued internal reinforcement angles - or do I just buy 0.020" thick
material and need less reinforcement?

So never having worked with styrene, what would be a "workable" sheet thickness
for the sizes noted above?

One point re construction thought is that the original paddle box design was such
that the horizontal member connecting each sponson was removable so as to
withdraw the paddle shafts without major surgery to the paddle box

regards Derek

[Randal R Largent]

I don't want to be the Devil's advocate here or produce controversy but i
would truly like to know what would be actual weight savings difference
if Derick builds the PBs out of sty instead of say 1/16 wood? Is sty
that much lighter?
What is a good supplier of styrene? I can find wood just about anywhere.
Randy

[george britnell]

I use styrene when building some models as you can
maintain scale thicknesses with plastic that you can't
with wood. Here again it depends on the scale of the
boat you are building. In the States we have several
good suppliers of stryrene and other types of
plastics.
One is Plastruct, they are out of California but are
distributed through most large hobby shops. They have
a complete selection from sheet to preformed shapes.
The other is Evergreen, they carry about the same
shapes and stocks as Plastruct and some of the local
hobby stores also carry this brand.

Regards,
George D. Britnell

[Ron Wild]

I work with styrene almost exclusively for upperworks on my boats. I think if you were to weigh a 1 ft cube of wood against a similar cube of styrene you would find the styrene much heavier.... As far as a supplier goes, most fair size towns have a plastic shop such as Industrial Plastics or similar. They will sell you sheets of styrene in 4 x 4 foot squares or 4 X 8 ft sheets. It is also available at model railroad shops in smaller sizes. Through a lucky stroke, I happened to walk into a music store one day and they were using styrene dividers between their cassetts etc. They had written on them as to the artists were. As new groups appear and old ones retire, it is necessary to change dividers. They gave me enough styrene in 14"x 6" size to last me a lifetime. So try that angle as well. Another source is a sign painters shop as they use styrene a great deal. . I also find when building superstructures etc a variety of thicknesses is necessary. As well, styrene lends itself beautifully to making vacuformed parts. Don't forget, styrene does not have to primed before painting and there is no filling and sanding necessary. Just glue it together and paint! However, I still build my hulls from wood.......Ron Wild
Kelowna BC
Canada

[Paulrjordan]

Randy...go RIGHT ahead and BE the Devil's advocate..that's what makes
an entertaining email group!!! In fact you raise an excellent
question and this is merely MY take on the thing!

I don't think there's ANY weight saving between styrene and ply of the
SAME thickness ...in fact I think styrene is a wee bit denser and may
be a little heavier!

Having established that, WHY would we want to use styrene over wood?
Well I don't think it replaces wood in ANY way..it simply provides an
alternative in certain situations. However, since I have used it
extensively here are some of my observations.

1) Easy to cut - most styrene sheet can be lightly scored and simply
SNAPPED!

2) Easy to tool. Parts can be mass produced with NorthWest Shortline
jig cutters and can be nibbled and circular cut where wood takes far
longer.

3) Can be easily bent, die molded and vacu-formed into useful shapes
in a fraction of the time of wood carving/shaping.

4) Easier to finish than wood - does not need sealing and can be
primed and painted to produce smooth, clean finishes.

5) Inpervious to water does not need waterproofing or weatherproofing.
However probably less stable than wood at higher temperatures.

6) Easy to glue - welding type adhesives are quick and clean to use.
However they pose greater health hazards than conventional wood glues.

7) Price - Styrene is proprtiontaely less expensive than wood in
thicknesses less than 1/16"

Now, I'm certainly NOT advocating dismissing wood as there is a
terrific aesthetic satisfaction in having crafted a model in wood and
applications where styrene is probably not appropriate. However it's
worth checking out and "playing with" as it's a material which is now
widely accepted by professional model builders.

> What is a good supplier of styrene? I can find wood just about
anywhere.

Randy..a good place to start is your local sign shop who may very well
have a few scrap pieces lying around which they'll GIVE you if you
TELL 'em you're building a model boat and show 'em a picture or plan
of what you're building (works every time!!!). Otherwise, go to your
local industrial plastics supply house and they should have a whole
range of thicknesses.

Anyway, check the stuff out and tell us what you think.

PJ

[Edward Matthews]

What are these NorthWest Shortline Jig cutters Paul? I've never heard
of them, but they sure sound interesting - More info please!

Regards
Eddy

[Paulrjordan]

Hi, buddy!
NorthWest Shortline (NWSL) are in Seattle Washington up here in the
Pacific Northwest. In addition to some very good gear/belt systems
(long recognized in the model Railroad hobby)they manufacture a
neat line of tools. you can find these at:
http://www.nwsl.com/Products/Tools.htm

Now while we're on the subject of tools I thought this sample of tools
from my "styrene" shop might be useful.

CUTTING & SHAPING
Selection of X-acto hobby blades.
Metal ruler
Selection sharp chisels (for punch cutting windows)
Plastic mallet for chisels
Selection of hole punches (portholes etc) You can make your own
circle punches from brass tube)
Hand nibbler
The "Stripper" useful little model aero tool for making strips
Olfa circle cutter (VERY useful)
NWSL "Chopper" (I have the single and double chop versions)
Finger and toenail clippers
Barbers' and paper scissors (alot of thinner styrene can be cut
just like paper!)
Dressmaker's houndstooth scissors

PROFILING
Selection hobby Files and rifflers
Screw dividers (essential for marking and scoring measurements)
Selection of home made "riveting" tools (made from old brass clock
escapements). NWSL do have quite a good riveter and you can
purchace pounce wheels from dressmaking supply shops.
Electric Heat Gun for bending (although a hair dryer or even the
oven will do)
Double sided tack tape for laying up workpieces together for
profiling identical pieces.
Sandpapers 100gr up to 1200gr wet/dry but 150, 320. 400 used most)
Metal plates 3" x 5" wrapped and taped with different sandpapers
to provide very flat sanding surfaces in varying courseness
against which you can shape styrene pieces.

GLUING
Magnetic gluing jig (for perfect symmetrical construction)
Touch 'n Flo solvent applicator (very neat)

CLAMPS
A few wooden clothespegs in various sizes right down to 1"
miniatures. Very little need for them because glues are very quick
setting
Variety of rubber bands
Masking tape

Tools I don't have but really SHOULD!
NWSL Tru Sander (wooh momma!)
NWSL "Dupli Cutter"

Many of these tools can also be purchased by mail order from Micro-
Mark online at:
http://www.micromark.com/

STYRENE shapes
Evergreen Plastics
Plastistrut
Model Builders Supply, Aurora, Ontario
Look in the Walther's Railway catalogue for other useful styrene
stuff)

STYRENE Diamond Tread/chequer plate :
SLATERS in the UK (who also make Plasticard which is styrene!) have
a Great selection of non skid treadplates in a number of scales
and patterns..!. They don't have a website, but I have an email
for them if anyone needs it.


Okat..that's it...feel free to add your own styrene workshop tips n'
tools which we can place in the Paddlducks file server for posterity!

PJ

[Edward Matthews]

> SLATERS in the UK (who also make Plasticard which is styrene!)
> have a Great selection of non skid treadplates in a number of
> scales and patterns..!. They don't have a website,

Oh yes they do Paul.... You'll find em at:
http://www.slatersplastikard.com/

Regards
Eddy

[Randal R Largent]

Thank you very much.
I will certainly give this some more though even though I have a tendancy
to be pro wood and anti "plastic" in temperment!
My hull for Transfer will definately be wood but I have considered
styrene for the wheels.
I'm definately going to check out your sources for that circle cutter and
those other tools.
I'm also going to put that info on my 'Paddleducks Favorites' floppy.
What a nice group.
Randy

[Derek Warner]

Me too Randy! - PS Decoy is planked wooden hull, deck, deckhouses
& sponsons - I wouldn't have it any other way, although the benifits that
styrene
offer for paddle box construction sold me on it - mind you, havent made them
yet!

regards Derek