Gluing styrene to timber

[Derek Warner]

By necessity the sponsons for PS Decoy are timber, but it is apparent that construction of the
paddle box assemblies will best be accomplished if constructed in styrene

Can anyone suggest a suitable glue for timber to styrene connection joints - regards Derek

[Paulrjordan]

Hi Derek...yes this is a classic question in model boat building!

The only glue I have had success in gluing styrene to wood is a glue
we have in North America called "Zap-A-Gap" by Pacer. It's a semi gel
gap filling CA. It's ESSENTIAL to key or slightly roughen the styrene
surface that's going to be glued to the wood with 320 gr. paper . Also
do not over apply this glue...the joint is far stronger when a thin
film occurs between the two surfaces. In situations where there might
be substantial stess on the joint, I always back it up with small self
tapping screws or fastenings of some type through the styrene into
the wood. Incidentally, this adhesive is also used extensively for
wood/wood aplications by the model aircraft people who want
lightweight, quick setting and sturdy joints. I'ts a very versatile
adhesive..so I guess THAT's why it's expensive!

BTW Does anyone have a SURE way of preventing the tips of CA glue
bottles from clogging?

Whilst many modelers also use this type of glue to join
styrene/styrene I prefer not to in favour of a solvent which will
actually "weld" the two pieces together. "Tenax", Ambroid "Pro Weld"
are good, and I have used pure methylene chloride (Caution HEALTH
HAZARD! with these solvents). I now find that common or garden
lacquer thinner works quite well, is a whole lot cheaper and has a
slightly longer working time.

Last word..I ALWAYS do a "test" with the material(s) I want to bond
together first. Leave overnight and see how much it takes to break
the joint and whether or not the joint itself breaks or (preferably)
the material breaks.


PJ

[whaleboat]

Good morning Paul,

In response to your query about how to keep CA from clogging the tips
of bottles I have been using a product for the past year that does
not clog. It is "QuickTite" by Loctite of North America, Rocky Hill,
Connecticut 06067. Their super glue gel is contained in an applicator
that appears to clear out the residual glue after releasing the
squeeze mechanism. Their regular super glue (thin) has a small pin
set in the top of the cap that keeps the applicator clear. Both are
available at hardware and craft stores, about $4.50 (US) each.

Al Blevins

[P Webster]

Derek,
I have used both AC type glues and slow setting epoxy resins but make sure the wood is
not an oily type such as some pines if you use the epoxy types and you will have better success
with the slower setting, gap filling types of super glues. Another point to remember is to roughen
both surfaces if you use the epoxy resin glues but you probably know this already.
Peter Webster :-)

[Hal Harrison]

I have found that a "contact adhesive" works well. They usually carry a
warning not to be used on expanded polystyrene but provided you are not over
generous then styrene sheet is not damaged

[Paulrjordan]

Hi, Hal:

Thank you for this one as it's something I've always been curious
about. I'm pleased you say contact adhesive works for styrene-wood
but do you think this would also work ok for styrene-fibreglass, as I
want to perfect a way of attaching embossed styrene plates to a
fibreglass hull. The joint has to be entirely waterproof as I have
recently seen the disaster on someone's tug where the plates started
delaminating.

By the way, Hal, please tell us about your modeling interests when you
get a sec. Thanks

PJ

[Derek Warner]

on January 25, 2002 <paulrjordan@canada.com> wrote

> The only glue I have had success in gluing styrene to wood is a glue
> we have in North America called "Zap-A-Gap" by Pacer.
<
> In situations where there might be substantial stess on the joint,
> I always back it up with small self tapping screws

Thanks PJ - I have a green labled bottle of Z-A-G type CA+ and
have tried it with styrene to timber with differing results
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
on January 25, 2002 <pwebster@froggy.com.au> wrote

> if you use the epoxy types and you will have better success with the
slower
> setting, gap filling types of super glues. Another point to remember is to
roughen
> both surfaces if you use the epoxy resin glues

Thanks Peter - have trialed epoxy resin, but ever using 40 grit sand paper
to score the styrene surface didn't provide a strong joint - I think the
problem
is that there are probably 50 different types of two part "epoxy resins"
available - but which one is best?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
on January 26, 2002 <HarrisonHal@hotmail.com>

> I have found that a "contact adhesive" works well. They usually carry a
> warning not to be used on expanded polystyrene but provided you are not
over
> generous then styrene sheet is not damaged

Thanks Hal - had not considered contact - on a different note, the Pelikan
Co
from Hannover (pens & the like) produce a hand held dispenser of roll on
contact
adhesive (the roll is 9 mm wide by 13 M long - appears absolutely perfect
for
gluing 0.003" brass shim plates to the hull
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thanks all - got the best of both suggestions - Z-A-G will go off before I
could
screw the baby 10 BA screws in, however they will make the epoxy resin joint
substantially stronger and the I am happy using a plastic welding cement
(Revel)
for the rest of the styrene paddle box construction etc

regards Derek

[Paulrjordan]

--- In Paddleducks@y..., "derekwarner" <derekwarner@b...> wrote:

(SNIP)
> Thanks all - got the best of both suggestions - Z-A-G will go off
> before I could screw the baby 10 BA screws in, however they will
> make the epoxy resin joint substantially stronger and the I am happy
> using a plastic welding cement (Revel) for the rest of the styrene
> paddle box construction etc
>
> regards Derek

Only when reading Derek's "summing up" post did THIS SUUDENLY HIT
me..Darn..I really should have mentioned this earlier. One of the
neatest tricks I use in model making is the use of HIGH STRENGTH
DOUBLE SIDED (CARPET) TAPE!

It's quite brilliant for attaching different materials or "pegging
them" until you can either screw or screw/glue them together. I have
often used such tape betwen two keyed (slightly roughened) and
completely OIL-free surfaces and then used a THIN CA around the seams.
The CA is enough to "seal" the tape inside and make the joint water
tight through capillary action. I have never had one of these joints
let go and I am totally confident in this method and having even used
it in electric motor mount installations.

One of the most useful applications for this method is for building
wooden decks and wood clad superstructures which allows you to
"veneer" thin pieces of wood strip or styrene onto a backing of thin
ply, styrene, or clear actetate. (Ever wondered how those enormous
architectural models of high rise buildings are made so quickly?).
Museum quality decking is an absolute snap with this method.

I must say I am NOT brave enough (yet!) to use it to attach plating or
planking onto a fibreglass R/C hull although somewhere there HAS to be
a waterproof double sided EXTRA heavy duty INDUSTRIAL strength tape
that would do this! There are special two sided tapes used in sail
making which have to withstand tremendous pressures and temperature
extremes which might be appropriate and I'll make a note to do some
experimenting to share with you all.

I can certainly assure you I have display models made 30 years ago
using this method which are as good as the day I built them. So, if
any others of you find this method useful too or have experiences of
it you can share with us, please pADDle on into the "info pool."

PJ