PS Reliant

[Paulrjordan]

Dear Paddleducks:

Recently we were talking about "PS Reliant" which had once been the
central exhibit in the Neptune hall at the National Maritime Museum in
Greenwich, London. I completely failed to mention Stu Badger's model
and the excellent photos he posted in the PHOTO section back in
November. I knew we had this series of photos somewhere in
Paddleducks, but I was looking in the files section rather than photos
at:

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Paddleducks/lst

I have just gone through all of them and they serve as an excellent
record of the paddle tug when she was able to be enjoyed even as a
static display. Sadly she is no longer there, and maybe someone in the
UK who has recently visited the NMM can provide an update.

Stu is currently making a steam driven model of "Reliant" and (if
you're reading, Stu) I'm keen to get an update on your progress with
the model.

Stu my apologies for the oversight.

PJ

[Stuart Badger]

Paul and all

I wondered if you'd missed the photos - I was all hurt that they hadn't been
mentioned!! :-)

The model is coming along and I have uploaded 10 pics of the progress so
far to the photos section.

She is one sixteenth ply plank on frame construction covered with a layer af
FG resin surface filler (no cloth). I have just started cladding the hull in
10 thou copper sheet to replicate the plating and riveting detail. The decks
planks are American oak flooring bandsawn down to one sixteenth X one
quarter with black paper 'caulking'. Deck houses are mahogany and oak. I'm
trying to replicate the original woods used where possible. The interior
detail of the captain/first engineer's saloon is virtually finished. The
funnell and ventilators I have had to fabricate from scratch as there is
nothing on the market remotely near the right size.

Although I am talking about 'Reliant' as I think I said she is actually
being built as 'Old Trafford' with full length sponsons and other minor
differences. The drawings I have for Old Trafford appear to have some
discrepancies and, as they are working drawings from the manchester ship
canal company BEFORE she was actually built I'm wondering if things got
altered as she was constructed. If anyone out there has a photo of Old
Trafford I would be eternally grateful!!

I ballasted her up this weekend so I could fit the engine room floor and the
projected all-up weight is about 55lbs - so if any one wants to volunteer to
help me lug it into the water when she's finished it might save a visit to
the osteopath!

Bye for now and thanks for the interest

Stuart Badger

[Derek Warner]

on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 2:04 , Stuart wrote

> "I ballasted her up this weekend so I could fit the engine room floor and
the projected all-up weight is about 55 lbs"

Yes Stuart the newer photographs look good - the three or four sections of
the copper sheet (pretend) rivited together for the funnel looks pretty life
like - no that's not right - looks supurb!

In one photograph (I think Relient MO1) showed an 8" steel try square and I
tried to guess some dimensions

Is she about 42" long, 8" depth of hull & 8" beam? - I would be very
interested in better understanding her actual (model) dimensions and
expected draft etc - & yes I wish I could take similar clarity or quality
photographs - regards Derek

[Stuart Badger]

Thanks for the kind words Derek :-)

the model is 52 inches long, 10 inch beam (18 inches across the sponsons)
and the hull depth (from deck level) is 6 inches. She will draw about 4
inches of water when floating at the marked waterline. So you were pretty
close with your estimate.

You might be interested in the cheat for the rivets. I am cladding the hull
in 10thou copper sheet to reproduce the plating and riveting. Each plate has
a double row of rivets at the vertical joint and a single row at the
horizontal. I haven't counted how many rivets there are - but it must tens
of thousands. To reproduce them I have taken a pizza cutter (the circular
wheel type) and filed a series of vees with a trisquare file around the
circumference. These 'teeth' are sharp enough so that when you run the wheel
over the reverse of the copper a rivet pattern is reproduced on the front
face. I guess you could do the same with a clock gearwheel or similar.

does anyone else have any interesting tips or cheats for reproducing details
commonly found on model ships I wonder?

Thanks for the comments about the clarity of the photos - I was given a
Mavica camera by my lovely wife - so all I have to do is press the button -
the camera is much cleverer than I am!!

Best wishes

Stuart Badger

[Derek Warner]

on Friday, January 11, 2002 9:57 PM "Stuart Badger" wrote

>You might be interested in the cheat for the rivets, to reproduce them I
have taken a pizza cutter (the circular wheel type) >and filed a series of
vees with a trisquare file around the circumference.
and
> the model is 52 inches long, 10 inch beam (18 inches across the sponsons)
> and the hull depth (from deck level) is 6 inches. She will draw about 4
> inches of water when floating at the marked waterline

Thanks Stuart - about six months ago I posted that I had bought two
milliners tracing wheels - they have the serrations already machined
(punched) in the wheels circumference - have also got 0.003" brass shim and
will do the same for the riveted component of Decoy

The 0.003" shim is pretty thin, and so as not to damage the rivet heads I
soft solder
the reverse of the rivet lines

The estimated 55 lbs had me a little thrown, but you have clarified that by
actual
dimensions (which are 25% higher in length and beam than my guess)

- and yes a good camera is critical but that's an other story - regards
Derek

[Stuart Badger]

Derek

wish I'd been on the list 6 months ago - then I could have got me to a
milliners and saved a lot of filing!! - great tip, thanks.

Stuart Badger

[Stuart Badger]

Hi Paul!

Thank you VERY much for the compliments - I do love making models of these
fabulous vessels and it's really nice to have others appreciate them - also
it's GREAT for the ego :-)!!

At the risk of boring you all this is how I built the wheels (I have
uploaded a photo to the reliant folder in the photos section entitled
components).

The wheels themselves were cut out on the bandsaw from a 'sandwich' of 4
sheets of approx 1/16inch brass - the cuts through the rim were then backed
with silver soldered arcs of brass to restore the integrity of the wheels.
They were then filed and cleaned up.

The hubs were turned from 3inch dia PVC stock on the lathe and centre
drilled and tapped for a 6mm shaft. I then set the angle of the spokes as
described in my previous post to Derek having pre-drilled the hub mounting
holes in the spokes. The wheels were then placed on the face of the hubs and
the hubs drilled and tapped to receive the screws to attach each spoke.

The float assemblies were built as follows - I wanted the wheels to be as
'scale' as possible - but they have to be robust enough to stand being
operated. Each float has 4 pivot supports on its face - one of which has an
actuating arm extension for the feathering mechanism. The actuating pivots
were made by gluing up 4 components, the mounting plate, two halves of the
arm (tapered) and the round pin housing. These 4 parts were glued up into a
'strip' about a foot long. I then set the strip in a jig on the bandsaw and
cut it into 1/8th inch 'slices' thus producing the 16 arms.

The pivots were made by the same method gluing 2 strips together (mounting
plate and bearing block) and 'slicing' them - there are 48 of these.

The PVC wont stick wth styrene cement but the PVC cement DOES stick
styrene - however it appears only the smelly stuff works!!

I then clamped a jig to the drill press so that I could accurately drill the
1.5mm holes for the pivot rod and the 1mm holes in the end of the actuating
arms.
14ba bolts were put in the end of the actuating arms, bushed with clearance
fit brass tube and retained with a 14ba nut.

I then made another jig which positioned the 3 pivot blocks and the
actuating arm on the floats (cut from the same sheet PVC as the other
components) in the correct position. These were cemented in place.

The feathering star was made by turning and drilling the ends from 3/32inch
square section brass and then soldering them to a 1/16th inch brass rod of
the correct length. The hub of the star was machined and radially drilled
from brass, centre drilled for the bearing. One of the actuating rods for
the feathering has to be rigidly fixed to the eccentric hub (the David
McGregor drawings are incorrect in this respect) and this was made from flat
1/8th X 1/16th inch brass. 10ba part threaded pins were then soldered into
the eccentric hub radial holes and the actuating arms attached and retained
with nuts - the rigid arm was soldered in place. The whole eccentric
assembly was then mounted to the pins on the actuating arms - I have yet to
position the eccentric support beam which is attached to the sponson
supports.

The floats are held to the wheel by passing a 1/16th dia rod threaded at
both ends through the pivot blocks and paddle wheel float support
extensions. The rod then has a retaining nut on each end.

On the components photo the actuating rod is top left, bottom left and right
are a pivot block and an actuating arm and top right is the strip from which
I sliced the actuating arms.

Yes!! I did hesitate before I sprayed the copper ( I must have shaken that
can for at least half an hour!) My philosophy is that a model of this kind
should be an accurate representation of the ship AS SHE WAS - not a museum
model.I adore those models in museums where all the brass is left laquered
and the hul has a gloss you can see your face in (indeed I've built some in
my time!). But the model of Reliant/Old Trafford is meant to represent her
'warts and all' and that means immitation corrosion under the paint etc so
out with the spray can and go for it!

The engines weigh just over 10 lbs so I have allowed for this - did you miss
my post about the bath test? well I think I have it right - I do hope so.

The paddle boxes will be built of thin stripwood over a lightweight frame. I
have a slight problem in that Old Traffford has deck houses on the sponsons
outboard of the hull. These contain the galley, WC, Locker and storeroom and
I want to put the interior detail in these - methinks some light varnished
paper modeling is called for for the interior detail!

Thanks again for the kind comments and I hope that this post hasn't been too
long or too boring.

Stuart

[Paulrjordan]

Hi Stuart!

Thank you for an EXCELLENT description of the build sequence for
"Reliant"'s feathering wheels. This provides an excellent roadmap for
future modelers who want to try their hand at building authentic self
feathering paddle wheels. I am still in awe of the speed and quality
you have applied to this aspect of the model...why do I suddenly feel
rather humble!!!

Thanks again for taking the time to share this valuable information
with us which will eventually find it's way to the "feathering wheels"
section of our files server.

PJ
Victoria, BC Canada

[Randal R Largent]

BORING?
I should think not!
More, more, more is my desire.
Great work!
Randy

[Stuart Badger]

Hi Derek

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!! food for thought!! I have read the posts you mention
and I'm not sure I agree with all the ideas - though I do with some.

First of all - rotational speed; the higher the shaft speed the more the
gyroscopic effect. Any spinning mass will try to precess to an angle about
the same as the earths tilt - now this would be fine if the world spun
horizontal to the pond we want to sail our models on - but it doesn't !!!
the result is that a model with a high speed paddle shaft will tend to heel
in one direction - as the lower of the two paddle wheels becomes more
immersed it exerts more thrust than its neighbour, this increases the turn
rate and results in MORE heel in the same direction thus exsacibating the
problem. (Early single engine paddle tugs had a box on deck full of scrap
iron which was hauled across the deck as the rudder was operated to
deliberately produce this effect and increase the turn rate - worked a treat
but resulted in many paddle shaft breakages due to the increased load on the
immersed side).

Also water struck at more than 40MPH is, to all intents and purposes solid
this can also give rise to very peculiar effects as the model heels because
the deeper wheel will tend to want to lift that side of the boat - the
opposite of the previous effect. What you then end up with is a model that
rolls violently from side to side.

The problem with working to 'scale' as far as operation of a model goes is
that you cannot scale the environment the model operates in (water density
and wind etc) A good example of this is the bumble bee - scientifically the
bumble bee is incapable of flight (energy versus wing area versus air
density + drag) The bumble bee, however has never read any scientific
journals - so continues to buzz happily on its way!! :-))

In practical terms then I think a slow paddle speed is best coupled with
deep immersion to avoid one wheel leaving the water alltogether as the model
rolls.

Of course - having said all this when I get the model on the water it will
probably spin violently around its horizontal axis, sink, and prove me a
complete fool!!

regards Stuart

[Dallinson]

Stuart.
I am also getting to the engine installation and paddle construction stage
on my model tug "Scotia". I have been very interested in your beautiful
feathering paddle wheels. I have printed everything out and it is my special
interest file. One day maybe I will have ago. Magic, a model in their own
right!! I love your photo album and have been following your construction
sequence very closely. Looks a lovely job.
50 RPM seems to be on the slow side to me. Try to imagine it rotating at
less than 1 rev per second?? Pretty slow?? I think if you knocked up a
quicky test paddle wheel (no feathering, plasticard would do fine) the same
basic size as yours and then give it some tests using hand rotation in the
basin, you would find that it would produce very little thrust indeed at 50
RPM. I am reckoning on running mine around 120 RPM to get any worthwhile
thrust going. I actually made mine out of cardboard and sprayed it (to water
proof it) to get my speed estimate.
Incidentally, I have plumped for a toothed belt drive. I weighed up both
options and decided that the toothed belt would be quieter (possibly not
much), corrosion free, more misalignment tolerant and require no
lubrication. I am using two electric motors, with sealed integral gears,
that can produce about 200 RPM flat out. The toothed belt provides no
reduction, both pulleys are the same size. I don't ever expect to run at
that speed, but it is there to try and/or avoid a collision by going
astern!!! (In which case the paddles will probably cavitate like crazy and I
will not slow up at all!)
I will be very interested indeed to see what you end up with. I am sure you
will keep us posted.
Good luck.
David

[Stuart Badger]

Hi david

On reflection I think you're probably right. I've re-read my post and yes
50RPM does seem a bit slow on the face of it - I might well try your 'mock
up' test.

I thought about toothed belt drive. Aside from my fear (probably unfounded)
about frictional loss, I had to consider all the oil floating about from the
steam engines - chain just seemed more logical for my particular
installation. I would certainly use toothed belt drive with electric
propulsion.

I'm lucky I guess in that the engines are very controllable I'm told - so I
can start slow and work my way up to speed!!!

Stuart