Gunboats SMS Nix & Salamander respectively HMS Weser & Recruit

[Chapman]

Hello!

I'm looking for documents / plans to build a model of the paddle steamer Prussian SMS Nix & Salamander 1851. Built in England by Robinson & Russell, Millwall.
After a change of ownership in 1855 the ships were HMS Weser and Recruit called .

The Science Museum had long ago a drawing ( Water-colour drawing of the "NIX" and "Salamander" (1851) (Inventory number 1868-95)  ) and the shipyard model ( block model of Prussian paddle gunboats "Nix" and "Salamander", 1851. (Inventory number 1868-77) ) of these ships in their archive.
According to the museum, the model was 1933 sold at an auction house, but the new owner not recorded, and the drawing is currently not searchable.
Unfortunately, the auction house no longer exists, so that's canceled the track to the model .

My questions: Does anyone know the whereabouts of the model here ? And maybe someone took a picture of the drawing or knows of pictures of the two objects from a book or catalog?

Would be grateful for any advice .

Sorry for the bad english.

Best regards

Jörg

[Harold H. Duncan]

French Naval Records, listed "Pingouin & Salamandre" - a set of 9 drawings.
PINGOUI1884C001 to PINGOUI1884C015
This is an 1884 side paddle steamer, 43metres long, is it the same boat?
cheers
kiwi

[Bierjunge]

is it the same boat?

No, these are different vessels.
That's the Prussian one (source http://www.paul-stamm-modellbau.de/deutschland/start.php?d_23SV_6034_SMS_SALAMANDER__AVISO__1851___Kaiserliche_Marine_bis_1869_.php):


And that's the French one:


Moritz

[Chapman]

Hello Kiwi,

the French ship is unfortunately the wrong one. Yes Moritz, that is the right ship. Thanks for the help.

I'm looking especially for information on the whereabouts of the shipyard model and the mentioned water-color drawing.
I am grateful for any hint.

Best regards

Jörg

[greateastern]

Hello,
The drawings are in Russell's 3 vol book naval architecture (1865). don't have my index handy  at the moment but I will see if I can find which drawings they are. If you are near a major library, you may have access to a copy though only 200 copies were printed. The NMM  has a copy but the costs are HIGH. Hang on for a day or so if you still need the drawings. I'll get back to you.
dave

[greateastern]

the plates in Russell's book are plate 90 -93 which includes external view, sail plan, long. interior sect,  gun deck.  plates 84-89 are for the Bann and Brunn and again NO LINES plan for either ship. Plate 43 has a cross section which may be weser or recruit --it is just titled gunboat. There are no other double enders in Russell's book but in Canney's Old Steam Navy vol 2 , pg 116, there is a body plan for the Tacony which is a double ender and you might have success scaling down the plan to fit weser/recruit dimensions.  Also pg 112 for body plan of Octorara, another double ender.
dave

[greateastern]

I'm just noticing the photo Moritz and that looks to be possibly the Bann or Brunn-  Nix and Salamander were double enders.

[Chapman]

the plates in Russell's book are plate 90 -93 which includes external view, sail plan, long. interior sect,  gun deck.  plates 84-89 are for the Bann and Brunn and again NO LINES plan for either ship. Plate 43 has a cross section which may be weser or recruit --it is just titled gunboat. There are no other double enders in Russell's book but in Canney's Old Steam Navy vol 2 , pg 116, there is a body plan for the Tacony which is a double ender and you might have success scaling down the plan to fit weser/recruit dimensions.  Also pg 112 for body plan of Octorara, another double ender.
dave

Hi dave (greateastern)

Sorry for my late answer. My wife was sick, so I had little time for the hobby.

Thanks for the informative answer. The topic is still relevant, and I will try to get the plan from Russell´s book.
I have a lines plan from Nix and several other plans of different places. And I´m in contact with the NMM and waiting since a month on the answer.
Maybe i should contact them a second time?!

May I ask one more question? If are any Information in Russell´s book about the Iron plating of the two ships? As the in and out or any other early plating system?


Thanks for your great help.

Best regards

Joerg

[Gerhardvienna]

Hello Jörg
Here is a link to a beautiful model from the Salamander, if you mean the Radaviso
http://www.modelships.de/Verkaufte_Schiffe/Radaviso_1/Radaviso.htm
I have found this by searching for stuff about the prussian DANZIG from 1851, wich I want to rebuild after my RIGI. Maybe this could help you
Regards from Vienna
Gerhard

[Chapman]

Hello Gerhard,

Thanks for the link.

The Danzig is also interesting. According to what sources you have built the model?

Greetings to Austria

Jörg

[Gerhardvienna]

Hallo Jörg
Sources?? For the DANZIG?? Almost nothing, exept some very few Infos from Wikipedia
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Danzig_(1851)
and a little other stuff from friends. There is also a card-model from japan available, but this does nit fit to the original dimensions, so it`s not important for the rebuild!
I`m in contact with the London museum of science, (they have an old model of her), to get some photos.  I will start to build her in autumn this year, the plans are almost ready drawn, the frames will be lasercut by a friend in Germany. Watch out for my report here, and at other forums. I will name all of them in the report, when I`m getting started.
Regards
Gerhard

[Gerhardvienna]

Hi Jörg
Here i found another Site, as you can see, the Salamander and the NIX were identical ships. But it looks like the Model from my link above was not correct rebuilt! There are lots of differences between the model, and the paintigs from "Deutsche Schutzgebiete".
http://www.deutsche-schutzgebiete.de/sms_salamander_radaviso.htm
Regards from Vienna
Gerhard
PS.: You could use the Link from Moritz (Bierjunge), this should be the correct plan to the ships.

[Chapman]

Hello Gerhard,

the Model Plan from H.-W. Sievers publishing comes from Abramovski / Vieweg, which I bought in the late 80s.
This reconstruction dates from 1979 and has, although generally not bad, a few weaknesses. So Vieweg and Abramovski had, inter alia, no original lines plan and apparently had problems to determine the exact length. This and other "problem areas" of the reconstruction is apparent from the documents already available to me.

In today's times of ease access to archives, it is much easier to collect information about old ships.
Possibilities of which Abramovski and Vieweg could only dream of at the time of their reconstruction.

I`m in contact with the London museum of science, (they have an old model of her), to get some photos.

Yes I know from the model.

I will start to build her in autumn this year, the plans are almost ready drawn, the frames will be lasercut by a friend in Germany.

I wish a lot of fun while building the model.

Grüße

Jörg

[Gerhardvienna]

Hello Gerhard,
Yes I know from the model.
I wish a lot of fun while building the model.
Grüße
Jörg

Hallo Jörg
I`m in contact with Jasmine Rodgers, from the Science and Society Pictur Library from the Museum of Science, she will organize some photos for me. This will happen end of this or next month, the primary plannings for the ship are ready, just missing some details now, for what I need the photos.
This will cost around €70,-- but the complete model will be much more expensive.
Thank you for your wishes, I hope it WILL be fun! But a lot of work too.
Best Regards
Gehard

[greateastern]

Hello Joerg,
   Russell is the originator of the in and out strakes so I imagine that it would be appropriate to do and I will check to see if there is any mention but there is no plating plan in his book for this vessel. NMM is very expensive for drawings so perhaps I can help you.
Send me your email via pm i can't get an image to upload.
dave