A very basic sticky problem

[peeteach]

Hi,
Its many years since I was an active modeller and things move on, what I am puzzling over at the moment is a choice of glue for hull building, I am aware of the properties of many of the advanced adhesives available these days but I find it difficult to actually decide, I mean this one causes grain to swell, that one is a bit heavy if you are lavish etc. etc. etc.
To my mind an tad of experience is just what is called for here, so I throw myself on your good will and mercy (grovel, grovel, snivel) Seriously though it is a genuine inquiry on which I would like some advice - I really don't want to see my pride and joy float off in two or three pieces.
Any advice gratefully received.
Happy Steaming
Peter

[steamboatmodel]

Hi Peter,
A lot depends on what you are gluing to what and what you are going to cover it with. Now I know thats as clear as mud, but if you are gluing planks to frames you can use a Carpenter's glue provided you are then going to cover everything with epoxy or polyurethane. Another way would be to use crays glue to tack everything together then cover. If it is a plastic hull I would try to find one of the solvent type glues.  It does pay though to read the instructions and recommendations of the glue manufacturers as there products seem to be constantly changing.
Regards,
Gerald.

[peeteach]

Hi Gerald,
Thanks for the info, it's definitely going to be wood on wood for the glueing. I hate working with plastics, most of the solvents are pretty noxious and with two small kids around both very interested in what papa's doing, well.....................
As to sheathing, I had not really got that far! but I suppose it would solve the water tightness problems, and I have got some very lightweight kevlar tissue around the place somewhere.... tick tick tick the poor old grey cells are being flogged into reluctant activity.
Again thanks.
Regards,
Peter

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hullo Peter.......I had always used plain old white PVA.....but many years ago I experiementsed with West Systems epoxy...on the recomendation of a professional wooden boat builder.... & I sure he was correct ....BUT 

Mixing a two part epoxy system in the volume enough to glue two planks [per day] .......you know about a table spoon full at a time  was CRAZY 

In Model Mayhem...a planked wooden hulled vessel thread called "Wide a Wake" developed & the builder used ''polyurathane'' single fluid glue....a number of other members also praised the advantages of the product

1. it actually adborsbs moisture during the curing process ...which is a similar time to PVA glue
2. it is TOTALLY waterproof when cured
3. timber is reported to rot away if immersed in water however the glued bond remains intact
4. it does not set in the rock hard  or glass like manner of epoxy or glass resins & retains a little flexibility
5. no mixing or premixiing required
6. the polyurathane glue is approx 25 % more expensive that PVA....however the West Systems epoxy was approx 250% more expensive that PVA

Based upon these recomendation [& WEB searches] I have purchased a 500 ml bottle as below.......& will trial it
Derek

[peeteach]

Hi Derek,
Thanks for the heads up on the sticky stuff, like I said things move on and improve but so many things look good at first glance, then you start to find the problems but that one you have just purchased sounds like the business to me, totally waterproof!!  I just love that.
I enlarged your thumbnail and had a closer look at it and that's a very good manufacturers name on the bottle, I've used various of their products over the years and ... what can I say they do what they say on the bottle - can't ask for more. So tomorrow it's going to be a nice game of hunt the glue, finding things like this aint always simple here!!!
Again thanks a lot for your input on this - what a lovely pompous phrase that is!!! but seriously thanks for the info, will definitely give it a whirl.
Regards.
Peter

[steamboatmodel]

I hope Derek has better luck with polyurethane glue than I have. I tried the Gorilla Glue on one project and was not happy with the results, first it stains everything brown especially your hands, I did not like the foam that seeped out of the joint, non of the joints I mane held and lastly it has a very short shelf live once opened.
Regards,
Gerald.

[peeteach]

Hi Gerald does not sound like a very happy experience!   
I  hunted around a little 'cos I was getting a bit interested in my own question and I found a couple of thankfully fairly short articles about this new jollop. I've added the links below if anyone wants to read them, but basically it seems that poly is only superior to yellow glue when gluing end grain to long grain, plus of course it is supposed to be good for all sorts of other materials but my prime interest was wood. As regards the curing in the bottle it appears also that this can be relatively easily prevented see article 2.  As to brown fingers, well.... when I'm using adhesives I always use non-talced, non - sterile surgical gloves anyway. Sometimes you end up with a bit of rubber attached to the job but better that than a little bit of me - like a finger for instance
I have to say that in my electronic ramblings I've seen some pretty wild claims made for this stuff - I don't think anything is that good and truth is I suppose that a range of adhesives would be the ideal and then tune them to the material you are using at that time.
Having read a fair bit about this stuff I think there will be a place for it on my bench but a universal panacea it ain't
All the best,
Peter




1.    http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/the_truth_about_polyurethane_glue

2.    http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive98/4_29ringstuck.html

[MatthewDS]

Bob Smalser's articles on this topic are probably of interest.  In the following article, he compares the current options (in the US) for glue, and how they perform.

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=smalser&file=articles_737.shtml

His tests are aimed at a boatbuilding audience, although I suspect that they may have model applications.  Also possibly of interest, his article on repairing glue joints.  I was surprised to discover that some glues do not stick to themselves when cured.

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=smalser&file=articles_605.shtml

Cheers,
-Matthew