Saito Delta Queen Build

[Eddy Matthews]

I assume that the 4 tubes at the rear of the hull are for the rudders?

It's coming along very nicely Iran....

Regards
Eddy

[steamboatmodel]

"I checked with Don at Loyalhanna and unfortunately the Hartman Estate threw out all of his slides and pictures before Don could access the inventory.   I guess they felt that something this historical in nature was not worth saving."
That is quite often the case, they probably figure it was just more junk related to his toy boats. We should all make sure that our treasures are going to be take care of after we go. Personally I plan to take mine with me because Heaven would be H*** without my model boats and steam engines, I hope it has CNC too.
Regards,
Gerald.

[ir3]

Hi PD'rs,

Installed the rudder tillers. A major problem with one of the tiller arms on the forward rudders. One of the grub screws was 180 out instead of 90 degrees requiring a special allen wrench to get the grub screw tightened. Very little space to work in. The crossbar had a spacing problem causing one of the tillers to be out of parallel with the other three. Should not be a problem. The rear rudder cross bar also did not match the spacing of the rudders but once again should not be a problem. Advice to anyone tackling this kit, deal with the rudders before installing the rear piece of the second deck structure. You will have no problem with the grub screws.

Until next time,

Iran

[ir3]

Hi PD'rs,

A bit more work on the DQ. The paddle wheel and associated hardware are dry fitted. Will make permanent after a bit of paint touch up. Next in line is the preparation of the engine bed and getting the engine matched up with the paddle wheel. The brass looks nice and am thinking of just clear coating. Also, note the oilers on the shaft bearing blocks.

Until next time,

Iran

[derekwarner_decoy]

Yes the brass finish with a polyurathane coating would look  ....ir3

I also see the paddle wheel outboard bearing blocks appear identical to the five mounted in your Y2DR engine crankshaft

Have you thought about a protection plugs for these as we would not like water in them....... .....Derek

[ir3]

Hi PD'rs,

A bit more progress. Spent most of the day fitting the engine and getting the paddle wheel to rotate smoothly. I feel a bit of pressure at two points turning the wheel. I assume that I am feeling the compression stroke of the engine. The driver ( I believe that this is a Pitman Arm) is cast bronze and this will be painted white. Next step is to work in the next bay forward and install the radio, servos and battery for the radio. I am keeping all brass unpainted where ever possible.

Until next time,

Iran

  Just noticed a bucket out of alignment.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Well PD's..... ...& never be let it said that I was biased toward the Saito Y2DR...... ...but you may get a few complaints from your scale crew

The engine room temperatrure will be greater than the current Y2011 regulations.....

However  ir3    ...there could be a simple resolution in you build & industrial relations with the crew

1.0 ......open the engine room sides to let the HOT air out
1.1.......build a series of glass lined opening A frames above the engine room just like in real ships
2.0.......this would keep the  engine crew a little cooler & happy & also display the   engine to viewers......

  ....just a thought........Derek

[kiwimodeller]

Iran, do the instructions say anything about positioning of the pitman arms? I see there is one on each side and I would have thought that they should be fitted either in parallel or at 180 degrees to each other. Perhaps the fact that they are not in synch is the reason for the tight spots? Regards, Ian.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hullo Iran....... ...I understand this question is to  ir3    .....but also offer a comment with my Y2DR

The Saito Y2DR crank shaft has two accurately machined flats @ 90 degrees.....which of course line up with the cylinder timing....which is also the setup positioning for the long pitman arms...

Looking at the DQ setup...suggests that the Saito Y2DR was designed around the build...& the engine by itself was just an after thought

ir3....with the ports open to atmosphere.... ... you are not experiencing 'the compression stroke'...but possibly mechanical stiction as the components reach their extremity of stroke & literally reverse direction  ...as this is normal.......

Your .jpg DQ24 also confirms the 90 degree pitman arm setting.......Derek

[ir3]

Hi PD'rs,

Thanks for all the input on the Pitman arm alignment.  The problem may lie with my Y2DR. The crank arms do not appear to be exactly 90 degrees apart. Something for me to look into when I fine tune.

Dry fitted the servo tray and set up both the rudder pushrod and forward/reverse push rod. I need to get the aft rudders installed and aligned. Next, install the RX and battery, and do some testing.

As far as keeping things cool within the hull, I was considering a small exhaust fan. Power for the fan will not be a problem since I plan on running some audio for the Calliope, the steam whistle and possibly some lights if I run late in the afternoon or early evening. A separate battery will be used for those functions.

I was thinking of using my broadband radio for this model. But it appears that no manufacturer except Robbe and Graupner (I think it is the same or similar radio) provide for controlling other function. If anyone has any suggestions on products that will enhance radios like Futaba, etc it would be appreciated.

Thanks once again,

Iran

[Barry]

A couple of websites with some photos and info on the King and Queen.
http://maritimematters.com/2010/06/the-delta-king-california%e2%80%99s-monarch-by-shawn-j-dake/
http://maritimematters.com/2010/09/log-of-the-steamboat-delta-queen-along-southern-rivers-part-one/
http://maritimematters.com/2010/09/log-of-the-steamboat-delta-queen-along-southern-rivers-part-two-2/

Scroll down the page a bit to see a very small photo etched model of the Delta King.
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=33372&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=210

[mjt60a]

Iran, do the instructions say anything about positioning of the pitman arms?...I would have thought that they should be fitted...at 180 degrees to each other...

I have an 'entry level' wilesco engine (same as is used in the graupner glasgow) that also has the cranks at 90 degrees and I think that will be to ensure that one of the cylinders is at mid stroke when the other is at the end of its direction of travel. that way, if you reverse or stop the engine you can be sure it will re-start, and in the direction you want.
If you were to leave the engine cranks at 90 but set the pitman arms at 180 (or 0 degrees) you'd just get the same problem there, I suspect...
...besides, they're at 90 on full size boats aren't they? since they take the place of the crankshaft?

[ir3]

Hi PD'rs,

I checked both the flats on the engine output shaft and the paddle wheel axle. The flats are at 90 degrees. The four crank arms that are in the Saito kit do not have the grub screws at exactly 90 degrees to the crank arm.  This results in the cranks not being 90 degrees apart but somewhat more than 90. I assume that this would be OK if the error was consistent at both the paddle wheel axle and the engine output shafts but the error is not consistent. This is probably why the wheel has stiction at one part of the rotation.

It appears that the cranks have been press fit to the collars housing the grub screws and perhaps brazed or silver soldered. There is no way I am going to make this right. It appears that I may have to find someone to machine a new set of cranks or contact Saito to see if they will fix the problem.

Any suggestions?

Iran

[derekwarner_decoy]

sorry......I think I was getting lost between the engine cranks & the pitman arm cranks......but I can see the M3 HPGS in these cranks......

oh dear...... ...could I suggest

1. do not touch or alter the position or construction of the webs to the crank
2. position the Y2DR on a universal milling table & fasten down lightly
3. align the pair of cranks "21 & 22" so the outer faces are truely vertical with the aid of an engineers square
4. present a dial indicator needle to the top surface of the other pair of cranks as per my second sketch
5. move the table inwards for the 28 mm crank length & gauge any height/angularity recorded by the dial indicator
6. take digital images of the engineers square in position & the angularity recorded
7. repeat this procedure for the other pair of cranks
8. e-mail your engine supplier [Helsinki?] with your issue & copies of the digital images
9. I see no evidence of silver solder in my crank/web build up in Y2DR, however suspect the crank assembly would have been a series of transitional slip fit's & assembled with Loctite super stud lock.......& the backed up with the M2 hollow pointed grub screws

As you well know, the manufacturer Saito are most illusive in communications directly....good luck.....Derek

[mjt60a]

I could be getting confused myself 
as I understood it, the engine is ok and if connected to a couple of side wheels would work just fine but the cranks for the pitman arms (two on the engine crankshaft and two on the paddlewheel shaft are not accurate...