PS Duchess of Fife

[ancoaster78]

Hi Everybody,

As mentioned elsewhere, some time ago I purchased off ebay a 1:48 Duchess of Fife in pretty bad condition. 

An initial survey and study of plans resulted in the desicion to remove all of the hull above the bulwark and rebuild it all more acurately, and of much lighter weight as it was over 'engineered' heavy and rather tender!

This was a disapointment but nessesary, I had hoped only the sponsons needed replacing.

Since being stripped down to bare hull it has sat in the loft keeping the squashed Talisman hull company, a couple of weeks ago I got both down with a view to smartening them up and getting them out the way so can I finally build my Jeanie Deans which has been in planning for sooo long.

However, I now find that DoF's hull is approx 1/2'' too deep according to scale.

I am considering chopping it to size, but this hull is built a lot more solidly, and therefore heavy than I would have built, and i'm worried that if i cut it to scale depth there may be insufficient bouyancy.

The draft in scale is only 33mm which I would have attmpted on a light weight scratch build, but on this im worried! Its frames are chunky, and it has a heavy layer of resin all across the bottom.

I floated it in the bath this morning and see that to get it to sit at the correct WL it took just 2.5kg, and to site that half inch lower, 4kg.

Is 2.5kg enough for thin ply/plasticard topsides, superstructure, sponsons, paddles, motors, battery, fittings? Or would that be a big risk?

4kg seems plently, and the extra stability would deffinatly help a long low narrow paddler, but i am one for scale, how do you all think it would look with the extra 1/2 draft?

Any thoughts welcomed!

Cheers 

[Eddy Matthews]

Scale is fine, but I always build my paddlers with an increase in draft. It makes them so much more stable, and able to handle a breeze...

So if it was mine I'd stick with the increased draft - Once it's on the water you can't tell anyway, and the majority of people would never know even when it's on static display unless you told them!

Just my two penneth worth....

Eddy

[djcf]

Hi Andrew,
I would agree with Eddy, the hull that I am building Marchioness of Lorne onto is deepened by roughly the same amount as your "Fife". Not a bad thing and not too obvious either.....I like to try my best to get things scale, but if I was scratchbuilding a paddler hull I would increase the draft slightly.

By the way are you working with the original builders plans? It would be great to hear your progress on her!
Clark

[ancoaster78]

Thanks guys, you have pretty much persuaded me, sometimes some external influence is needed with these difficult desicions!!

One further related question, the Duchess of Fife had an extrnal keel, protruding 4.5inch below the bottom of the hull and contiuning round the forefoot to join the stem, and up the sternpost.

As soon as I saw that this was the case of this ship I was very keen to add it to this hull which hasnt got it already, but, now I have the increas in draft to accept, I wonder if it should be there or as, as it will increse the overall draft even more, if better to leave it off.

Im probally in favor of adding it as it is a key stuctural member of the real ship, and so really should be there, if I do, how would anyone recommend doing that, a thin stip down the bottom potentially quite vulnerable, I would have liked it to be brass for strength, but worried about adding any weight, although it probally isnt that much weight in a small strip, or would plasticard/styrene be up to the job, it could sit in a stand so it wouldnt in theory need to ever touch the ground....?!

All thoughts welcome, thanks!

Clark, it was your Marchioness that not only persuaded me to have a go at fixing Talisman but this Duchess too, your build offered inspiration to both my problem projects of the past, I shall be following behind copying your every move  It's been playing on my mind that they sit there takin up space and having cost money but not done anything with, this is the last chance for them both as im nearly ready to build the Jeanie!

Oh, and I have an original Midship Section for Fife, and a side view and main deck from the GA in the 'Memories of the Clyde' book on the ship. The midship plans gives the dimensions accurately and the frame spacing etc, so i am using that with the undimensioned plans in the book to work the rest out. normally I only work from full original plans, I like to make all the decisions myself, but after aquiring the book and seeing how good the plan in it was, I decided only the midship section for the key dimensions would be needed, keep cost down, i've just forked out a pile for extra Jeanie and Waverley (1899) plans. What was your source of plans? I got the midship from Glasgow City Archives, and saw that they had plenty of other plans for the ship too which I might one day aquire if i ever scratch build!

Fear not, I shall bore you all keep you posted with progress....

Cheers 

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's.......ancoaster78....

Adding this to a pre built wooden hull could be a challange ...however having said this it could be achieved

1) invert the hull & secure in or onto a building board
2) produce from scrap flat material a full hull length support frame for a laminate trimmer [router] secure this frame over the length of the hull
3) set a tungsten tipped router bit in the trimmer & route a full length slot into the hull

Remember a 4.5" element @ 1:48 scale is only 0.093" or 2.4 mm in depth so a height to width ratio could be 2:1, so the thickness of the external keel strip may be in the order of 1.5 mm wide only

4) hope & pray that the routing process stays clear of metalic objects [brass nails] however you could consider routing a depth = to the protrusion or say 4.8 mm in total keel height [2.4 mm in the hull....2.4 mm outby as the keel]

5) this would provide plenty of depth to epoxy resin the keel plate into.......if you go down this or a similar path....OAK would be a good selection to the wooden material....Derek 

[ancoaster78]

Derek,

Thanks, this plan is good....mildly terryfing but good. Especiaslly the digging deep to leave room for the resin, smart.

Will survey the hull for suitability of this later, but first gotta take my Aussie Uncle to a steam railway for the day 

Cheers 

[djcf]

If I was scratchbuilding a hull I would insert the full length keel, I haven't bothered trying to add this to the fibreglass hulls, although I usually fit a brass stempost for strength.

The Fife book is excellent for details and the plan....wish there was a book like that for my ship!!! I drew my own plans for Marchioness from photos using dividers....but I managed to buy one deck plan nothing else exists anywhere.
The Mitchell Library is good for plans....I have just ordered 5 sheets for Fair Maid (1914) for a future project

Glad my build has inspired you, I'm just feeling my way along so if you discover any better methods for construction, let me know!
cheers
Clark

[Talisman]

Hi Andrew,
Not much you can do with the extra depth without giving yourself a headache so may as well use it to advantage.

Having heard about your plans for your Jeanie Deans build I'd be inclined to say go for it ... get her sailing (DoF) and lets see the Jeanie on the work bench... but then i am slightly bias as the Jeanie is a personal favorite!
Regards,
Kim

[ancoaster78]

Hi Everybody,

A happy compromise has been achieved.

The hull had a 1/4 inch square stringer around the top of it, and was extreamly rigid. It has now been trimmed down to half its height, therefore taking approx 1/8 inch of the depth of the hull. This has not affected rigidity at all, and will compensate for the extra depth the external keel will add.

This way the hull remains overscale in depth, but not made worse by the addition of the external keel, in fact, the amount taken of the top of the hull is very slightly more than the keel will add, so overall a tiny improvement. I am pretty happy with this outcome!

The slot for the keel has been cut, not quite in such an organised manor as Derek suggested, but a kind of make do version of the same, outcome satisfactory and only encountered one nail!

The new bow had already been fitted, and now I commence on the new stern....

Will try and post a photo or two when theres something more impressive to show!

Cheers 

[djcf]

Hi Andrew,
Sounds interesting, and a good outcome. Would be great to see a few pics
cheers
Clark