boilers ?

[R.G.Y.]

The trouble with paddlers is the stability. unfortunately boilers have a high center of gravity.  Having studied MODEL BOILERS AND BOILER MAKING by K.N.HARRIS. I saw a  sketch of a boiler invented by a Mr wedge, the wedge boiler a water tube boiler consists of 3 layers of tubes the middle layer set 90o to the others. Wide but low ideal for a paddler. Unfortunately no details so I have drawn up my own design and have done all the calculations. I have started con strution. That is the easy bit certification is the hard part. My model engineering club (toy train club) tester said he can,t test a none approved design, wouldn't even look at my calculations. To get approval will cost £400 by the Royal Alliance. R.G.Y.

[Eddy Matthews]

With the changes in boiler testing regulations, the smaller boilers often do not need to have a test certificate Geoff.... It's all down to their capacity and working pressure. Of course testing is always advisable.

Take a look at the following document in our Downloads area - I know very little about steam power, so it's as clear as mud to me, but hopefully it will make sense to you?

http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=304

Regards
Eddy

[monarch]

Please don't accept ANY advice to ignore the need for proper cerification for boilers.  My father suffered very badly from an exploded boiler, and even small vessels are a danger to health.  Go through the red tape come what may.

You've met me, and know how I am fairly laid back...but not with pressure vessels of any type-it aint worth it.

Matt

[Eddy Matthews]

I never said it shouldn't be tested Matt - I simply said it doesn't require a test certificate! A totally different ballgame!

I'd certainly always advise that a boiler should be tested to ensure it's safe - But the certificate isn't required, that's the way the law currently stands as far as I'm aware.

Regards
Eddy

[kno3]

Interesting project. If I understand your description correctly, the water tubes will be under the boiler, like the Yarrow type?

What exactly is an approved boiler design in the UK, who approves it?

[Red_Hamish]

Interesting project. If I understand your description correctly, the water tubes will be under the boiler, like the Yarrow type?

What exactly is an approved boiler design in the UK, who approves it?

An approved insurance examiner who is usually involved on a local level with a model engineeering society either on a local or national level. This is normal for any club insurance to be maintained and there is a requirement within most clubs own safety policy to have the boiler re-certified at an agreed period. Most people would buy a commercially produced boiler in the first instance and that way get a manufacturers certificate at purchase.

cheers

Jim

[monarch]

The issue is not simply testing, it is approval.  There are too many people making unapproved boilers out of bits of copper pipe these days.  My message is to stop playing about with your own safety and build ONLY from approved designs and ensure that your pressure vessels fit within the PSSR-even if they don't have to.

Serious injury could result without regards to this.

[Red_Hamish]

The issue is not simply testing, it is approval.  There are too many people making unapproved boilers out of bits of copper pipe these days.  My message is to stop playing about with your own safety and build ONLY from approved designs and ensure that your pressure vessels fit within the PSSR-even if they don't have to.

Serious injury could result without regards to this.

Absolutely Matt, always use an approved design. Then as any responsible boating member will be a member of their local club, remember to keep your compliance up to date,

Jim

[antopia]

Eddy I think you are partly correct under 3 bar litres they are exempt but i am sure your club tester would
say the same thing he could not test it.
it all boils down to, you can make it, test it, sell it as part of a package ie complete loco(not sure about a boat possibly a complete steam boat) but not insure it for public usage unless it has been tested by an approved body this is for under 3 bar litres
it seems the new laws have changed too much for boiler testers to say yes or no, they can approve them if
suitably qualified but I suspect nobody is prepared to do this now.

I work for a steam building company so I see boilers made and tested I believe testing above 3 bar litres is about £600 or so for an approved design. 

another note ALL boilers should be properly pressure tested and correct steam test before use
holding the required pressure is only part, it must not look like a banana after testing so measurements taken
before and after are required.....

and I do make my own COPPER boilers and will continue to do so as a hobbyist  they don't get approved or insured as I have my own track.....ask me in 20 years time if any of them have blew up though


Steven

[R.G.Y.]

Nice to know the Monarck's captain remembers me. you will be pleased to hear I will not be useing any old tube. I will be pressure testing to twice the working pressure. As for 3 bar-liter rules I read it as no more tests after the first, not no test at all. Also I have been told a lot of the published (approved) designs are rubbish?  Yes it is a water tube boiler (as yarrow) where the fire is out side the boiler & inside a caseing. I plan to line my mild steel case with 1/2" thermalight block (insulation building brick).  Another advantage with this design small tubes less area =less pressure. A lot of interst thats good. R.G.Y

[monarch]

Do you want some proper refractory, I don't know if it will cast well on a small scale, but I can post some out to you if you fancy?

Glad you're not mucking about with plumbing supplies though!! 

And I always remember my punters! Although I may not be at Monarch's helm much longer, things are changing in life and next season may be my last 

[derekwarner_decoy]

Opps........second slip tonight ....had not looked @ the recent .......reference link from Eddy earlier tonight......


Hi PD's.....we do have 'a reference' to the 2007 British boiler Standards in our WEB pages courtesy of Sandy Campbell........ Derek

[antopia]

RGY ,I would be interested to see it built,how about using ceramic fibre then it will give heat back into the boiler chamber but use thick stuff I tried some 2mm i had but its too thin, 6mm I think would be fine gives similar results
as ceramic plaque used in burner contruction ie it glows red....

Steven

[monarch]

I've got tons of that too if anyone wants some!

Matt

[R.G.Y.]

Thanks for the offer Matt. I think the block will be lighter, and easier use, but the joints made with fire cement.
The ceramic no better than the block, they also glow red and reflect the heat. I use them as a silver soldering hearth. Fixing to the case is no problem, it can take a double helix screw.
     The model engineers societies boiler regs; up dated November 2008, I have seen a copy, put don't have access at the present. R.G.Y.