Paddlewheels

[Talisman]

Hi All
Ok, more research = more questions

How would people feel if the wheel set were held together with nylon/ plastic nuts and bolts rather than metal / brass nuts and bolts? (assuming they would be of similar / identical size as their metal counterparts)
My reasons for asking -

1. They would be lighter ?
2. Graupner sell many with plastic rivets and have few complaints?? Nuts and bolts are a more permanent / robust fixing and possibly more scale?
3.Once painted how knows anyway?
Would really appreciate any and all feedback on this question.
Many thanks,
Kim

 

[Eddy Matthews]

hmmm, I'm not sure about plastic nuts and bolts Kim....

Can you get them small enough? I've never seen any below about 4mm diameter.

The threads are generally a very coarse pitch and therefore the nuts are much thicker than metal ones.

Lastly they break easily if your a bit too enthusuastic when tightening them.

So apart from a saving in weight (which would be marginal), and perhaps a small saving in cost, I don't see that they really have a whole lot going for them..... Sorry but that's my opinion

Eddy

[Stuart Badger]

hi Kim

I tend to agree with Eddy. In fact brass BA nuts and bolts are actually cheaper in bulk than the bigger nylon/delrin ones.

My preference for the perfect paddle wheel would be.

PVC turned hub (can be tapped for bolts)

Brass etched paddle pivots, control arms and rivet detail.

ABS/PVC or even wood Paddle floats.

Spokes in ABS or PVC.

Wheel rims in etched brass (if thin) otherwise PVC or ABS

and definitely brass nuts bolts and studs

Stuart

[Talisman]

Eddy many thanks for your thoughts.
I have found a supplier that does M2 with similar/identical diameter/measurements.
The saving cost is significant and that's my reason for asking.
many thanks any other thoughts would be appreciated  

P.S. - Interestingly the nylon bolts/nuts come with a tighter thread.

[Stuart Badger]

At 1/48th scale an M2 nut would be about 10 inches diameter to scale. At 24th scale 20inches Dats BIG!

Stuart

[Harold H. Duncan]

Hi,
You sure about that Stuart?
By my reckoning a M2 nut is around 4mm dia - so that in real life from 1:48 would give a 7.5" dia. nut (3.75"dia thread)
and from 1:24 would represent a real life 3.75" dia nut (1.875" dia thread)
could be wrong
kiwi

[Stuart Badger]

I seem to be having trouble with my numbers today! My UNRESERVED apologies to all!

Perhaps building scale models is not an occupation I should indulge in!!!

Stuart

[Eddy Matthews]

I seem to be having trouble with my numbers today! My UNRESERVED apologies to all!

Perhaps building scale models is not an occupation I should indulge in!!!

Stuart

 

Eddy

[Talisman]

Ok Guys it's late at night so forgive the maths,
I do appreciate the comments.

If i go for brass / metal it does make a big difference to the cost. The difference in size between plastic and metal head screws / nuts is 0.2mm, which in scale terms is arguable?

Question - what would be the ideal diameter 1 / 48 scale nut and bolt? Is such a diameter available in nuts and bolts?
Regards,
Kim

[steamboatmodel]

I put some items together with plastic and nylon nuts and bolts at one time for a theater prop. It went together in an hour, I then spent the next week re tightening and replacing loose and missing parts. When the production ended the prop-master presented me with a sledge hammer and told me to enjoy myself.
If I was going to use plastic and nylon nuts and bolts again I would glue everything together after installing them.
Regards,
Gerald

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's.......Talisman....here is a link to a table on BA thread form.......I am building @ 1:24 & find 10 BA [1.7 mm diameter] suitable...this equates to a 40 mm diameter stud diameter

So you must answer your own question...........but I am guessing that 16BA may be suitable for 1:48 scale & should be readliy available in brass.....but they are tiny 

Only a few rules to follow....the higher the number = the smaller diameter.......the smaller diameter = the higher the cost - Derek 

http://www.sizes.com/tools/thread_BA.htm

[Talisman]

Despite being disappointed about not being able to attend the paddler day some info regarding etching came through the door today:)

I have to say the samples do look impressive and the possibility of producing a fine set of wheels has cheered me up slightly.

Stuart many thanks for your thoughts on an ideal set of wheels i will use them as a reference / bench mark for my efforts.

P.S
 the poll has been altered to be visible - results look as i expected - Many thanks to all that have voted
Pics of samples -

[Talisman]

A busy day today...




2. Sourced a supplier of M1 threaded rod , M1 nuts and bolts in quantity and cost that is not prohibitive to making the kits commercially

Hmm...
I received a sample of my M1 threaded rod today........ M10 they sent.... expecting this just to be a mistake i now find out that M1 threaded rod is hellish difficult to make for less than £50 a meter.....
Back to the drawing board...

Regards
Kim

[derekwarner_decoy]

Sorry Kim........"only a few rules to follow....the higher the number = the smaller diameter.......the smaller diameter = the higher the cost" 

I am not a machinist [since 40 years ago  ]....but I doubt that M1.0 diameter would be produced as threaded bar 1000 mm long..... ..........Derek

[Stuart Badger]

Hi Kim

I presume you're using 1mm rod (threaded) for the horizontal bracing and/or the paddle float pivot shafts?

I use 1mm rod too - threaded 12 BA (1mm rod being 40thou or exactly the right size for a 12 BA die). I would have thought that there should be plenty of small light engineering outfits able and willing to thread just the ends of short lengths to accept nuts (ideal job for a small capstan lathe). Or do you Need the whole length to be threaded?

Stuart