Advice required

[Eddy Matthews]

I'm thinking about the possibilities of setting up a small scale production of paddlewheel frames and other small odds and ends, but which method to go with?..... CNC cutter, laser cutter, photo etching, etc etc.

Which method would be best? Pros and cons..... ie. cost of setup, types of material that can be handled, Software needed and ease of use of said software, any other hints and tips or suggestions?

Links to companies that make the necessary machinery/chemicals and/or software?

Basically any help and advice on this sort of thing would be very welcome.

Regards
Eddy

[bogstandard]

Eddy,

You pays your money, you takes your choice.

I can give you a bit of basic info on the CNC route.

These are about the most popular decent sized versions about at the moment. You can set up the router type much cheaper, but they are limted in the types of materials they can handle and depths of cuts etc.

You will also have to factor in the costs for a PC and software, plus tooling for the machine, collets, cutters, clamps, vices, 4th axis rotary tables etc. Maybe up to another £1K. You could most probably get away with a 'car boot' type computer, as they don't really need to be super fast, just have the basic requirements for running the software and processing data, plus the correct ports for connection.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Additional-Departments/Special-Offers/Sieg-KX1-Hobby-CNC-Mill

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/CNC-Milling-Machines/Sieg-KX3-CNC-Hobby-Mill/Sieg-KX3-Hobby-CNC-Mill

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Syil-X5-CNC-Milling-Machine-BF20_W0QQitemZ360111485288QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item360111485288&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1298%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Syil-X4-plus-CNC-Milling-Machine_W0QQitemZ360115509652QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item360115509652&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1298%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

The main thing is not using the machine, but being able to program it thru the computer to do what you require. This would be a rather large learning curve (I was going to go thru all this later on this year, but decided my faculties don't have enough retention power any more).

You can buy software that will turn CAD drawings into the code required to operate the machines. So if you can use CAD, maybe that would be a good option.

Now after you have picked yourself up off the floor, have a bit of a root around this site.

http://www.cnczone.com/

Hope this has helped, or at least opened your eyes.

John

[2late]

Eddy,

I have made my own CNC machine using a normal router which handles most things that I want to do. I have a usable table size of 790mm by 1.75 meters.( I went to the size as the tracks were available for the same price as smaller ones) I purchased stepper motors and a control kits from Hobby CNC in America, you have to put the control board together, fairly easy steps and assistance is available if required. The tracks and other bits I was able to pick up locally reasonably cheap as they were 'old stock' and they wished to get rid of them. All up to make all the things required, frame for tracks, lots of bolts, bearings and other odds and ends it cost about $3500 to $4000 australian. Then there was a computer, an old one is ok it just needs to have 5 volts at a certain pin on the printer port, a lot of new ones will not do the job.

Then there are programs. I run Mach 3 as the program that controls the CNC. I use Adobe Illustrator to draw what ever is required, I then save the drawing and it is taken to Vetric 2D which then applies the size of cutters that you want to use and after a few other bits are done you can then convert it to the format that you are using, for Mach 3 it uses a 'G' code. I purchased a 4 axis motor and kit as I want to be able to eventually do 3 dimensional objects. The programing cost about another $1200 to $1500. Once you start to look at what can be done with a CNC it seems to be that the only limits are your own imagination. I have had numerous requests since I finished mine for signs, name plates, photos engraved on wood and numerous other things. People just love to watch it doing its job. My machine will handle plywood, aluminum, brass and copper using tungsten bits and solid carbide flat and round nosed end mills. As for the laser I looked at it and the cost is prohibitive and it seems not to be too keen on cutting metal, seems it will etch, not real sure on that point though.

The whole thing requires one very steep learning curve with the programing, but once there the sky is the limit. Hope that this may be of assistance.

Graham

[rmcluckie]

Eddy,
       I can recommend this company who will cut out any shape with laser at very reasonable prices. The surface finish is first class and ready to paint. Saves setting up your own system. They deal mainly with parts for model locomotives but you can send either a cad drawing or even a sketch of the part required with sizes.  Check their website. See attachment

Robert

[Eddy Matthews]

Thanks guys, I've spent the day reading up on the various links provided and the comments made up to now.... Two things to do from what I've learnt so far, first see if I can learn to use the CNC software - I have a copy of Mach3 to play with. And secondly to check out the link Robert gave to see what costs are involved for someone else to do all the work - That will allow me to work out if it's economic.

Oh, a final thing I need to do..... save up a lot of pennies

Laser cutting seems to be out totally because of the costs involved. But that still leaves photo-etching, does anyone have any info on that, and links to suppliers etc?

Regards
Eddy

[2late]

Eddy,

The biggest challenge if you do not know how would be to learn to use CAD or similar programs. As I said I use the Illustrator and have spent many frustrating hours, but have finally got the basics of how to use it.

I have another program Artcam Pro which is similar to the Vetric, but much more complicated to use, probably a lot better but requires very intense concentration (something I lack) hence I stick to the Vetric, once what ever you have drawn has been converted to the G code the Mach 3 program just requires that you set it to where you want the job to be done and press start and from there on it is just watch and enjoy the finished results.

Most of the programs have a trial version and some small jobs can be done, but Mach3 is limited to 50 lines on the trial version I think. If there is anything that I can help with I will try as it is a machine that allows more and more to be learnt and done without too many mistakes. Most mistakes that I have made have been in the drawing stage and it just carries on from there but is fairly easy to overcome when the mistake is noticed.

Graham

[Eddy Matthews]

Thanks Graham.... I have the full version of Mach3, so I'm not stuck with the trial versions limitations

I also have a couple of CAD programs, so over the next few weeks I'll have a play around with them all and see what I can do with them. Even without buying a CNC cutter, learning CAD and Mach3 would be useful so the necessary drawings and G code can be done without having to rely on someone else, so all is not lost whatever the outcome. Fortunately our local university does some courses on CAD/CAM, so I may enroll there if it proves too complicated for me to get my brain cells around!

Regards
Eddy

[Stuart Badger]

Hi Eddy

you might want to look at this link  http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=photo+etching This is the standard work on chemical photo etching. This method has several advantages (I think) over cnc cutting.

Paddle wheels (and most other things for example) quite often have  'corners' - impossible to cut with a rotating cutter, even with a very small cutter you always end up with a radius on an inner 'corner' ie: where a paddle wheel rim meets a spoke.

With Photo Etching you can also work with thin material without having to back it up to avoid buckling when cutting. You can also scale things just by the simple expediant of enlarging or reducing the drawing or negative. Finally, of course one can produce really small detail parts impossible to achieve by mechanical means.

There is also the added advantage that it is MUCH cheaper than any other method of fashioning parts from non-ferous metal sheet (apart from setting to with a file etc!)

It might be worth your while doing a trawl of some of the model railway loco kit manufacturers - many of them use this method for kit production

All the best
Stuart Badger

[Eddy Matthews]

Thanks Stuart,

I've sent off for a copy of the book, it sounds like it should give the answers to all my questions on photo etching

Regards
Eddy

[Stuart Badger]

With regards to photo-etching Eddy, you might find this interesting!

http://modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/etchintro.php

All the best

Stuart

[Eddy Matthews]

Thanks for the link Stuart.... Hopefully later this year I'll have a go at making my own photo-etched parts and see how I get on...

Regards
Eddy