Boiler ignition

[bargeboy]

Does anyone know of or has constructed a piezoelectric gas lighter for a model boiler. A search brings up a couple of answers but they just confirm such things use to be around and they work......

[steamboatmodel]

Try the camping department, you can buy them as spares for the small burners/lanterns, also a replacement parts for BBQs. I haven't tried them on any of my boilers yet, I use the small BBQ lighters or a small torch.
Regards,
Gerald

[FlashTwo]

I purchased a battery powered electronic gas lighter and refitted the electronics in another box with a D size battery in place of the AA battery. I then extended the switch circuit to a more convenient location and extended the spark conductor with a thickly insulated cable to a home made spark plug. The spark plug insulator I obtained from a 13A fuse with it's end cap and inards replaced with a length of stainless steel rod bent to be adjacent to the pilot light in the ships boiler. The fuse case was mounted in a small brass collar that was silver soldered to the boiler casing. The rod was threaded to enable small nuts to lightly grip the ceramic tube. When the best position for a healthy spark was determined (mind to keep your hands clear of the electric shock, which is not dangerous) and which didn't track down to earth, a blob of Uhu glue was placed between the tube and the brass collar (the glue survives the heat). The other "earth" wire of the lighter is screwed onto the boiler shell as a return path. I have used this on my flash boiler for a year now just having to reposition the rod on occassions.
I sourced the gas lighter from http://www.youreableshop.co.uk/ for £3.23 plus vat. I bought a couple since they charge postage.

Ian.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's...we have spoken about this ......in previous postings  .....& yes 'FlashTwo' ...your comments are appreciated for any new member with a 'pan' or 'underneath' externally positioned ceramic burner element

The problem  still exists for those with   boilers .....but with internal or close coupled ceramic burner element which actually reside in the boiler water tank ......etc

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's ....& a question for Nick @ Monahan.......could you please comment or explain the lighting process between the vertical & horizontal ranges of your Monahan boilers.......I think I see three variants  in the visuals.........most interesting subject...... ........regards Derek

[Monahan Steam Models Inc.]

Hi Derek & PD's

The lighting procedure for our Vertical & Horizontal boilers is fairly simple.

The lighting procedure:

1. Hold a long match or BBQ lighter with the lit flame placed directly over the opening at the top of the boilers chimney.

2. With your other hand gently open the gas valve just until you can hear the gas beginning to flow.

3. The flame at the top of the chimney should be drawn down the chimney to the burner and the burner is ignited. Once the burner is ignited, you may increase the the flow of gas to the burner.

The air/fuel ratio used with our burners allows the boilers burner to be ignited almost always on the first try.

Caution should be taken if the burner does not ignite immediately. Shut of the gas. Since Propane and Butane are heavier than air the gases will settle in the bottom of the boat's hull and attempting to ignite the boiler with these gases built up is dangerous.  Allow any trapped gases to dissipate or gently blow the gases out of the hull. A small personal battery powered hand held fan will do the trick as well.

Another procedure for lighting a burner is to slide it back out of the boiler just enough to light it when the gas is slowly turned on. Once ignited, then slide it back into the boiler.

An interesting fact we should point out is with our Belmont series of boilers we have provide threaded bosses in the super heater assembly for both a pilot burner as well as a micro spark plug for an electronic ignition system we will be offering in the future. With the electronic ignition all you will need to do is turn on the gas and push a button and your boiler's burner will ignite immediately.

Regards,

Nick 

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's & thank's Nick for the comments .....again  ......a difficult experience.....

From the many postings by Sandy [ACS]....he always warned of the dangers  of a 'top light'... but with fixed burner tubing it can be virtually impossible to withdraw the burner for ignition 

From a lay scientific view...  ...when we open or inject the gas supply to the boiler burner...due to the SG of the gas being heavier than air....we displace the natural atmosphere until the gas column can be ignited...in my case....Decoys burner is 4 1/2" below the boiler top ...plus the chimney is 7" above the boiler top....so that is bordering on a 12" gas column to ignite

By design....my plan is to remove the 7" high chimney [thumb & forefinger knurled nut] insert a 4 x1 mm kerosene soaked lighted taper down between the boiler cross tubes then on axis with the burner ..ignition!...then replace the chimney

I think the Monahan Belmont future option of PIEZO quartz ignition is the way to go .................Derek

[bogstandard]

Derek,

I still have a Cheddar boiler with piezo ignition, and it is a very simple exercise to make one. If you want a piccy of the real thing, just ask.

Where the ceramic bit is, it is a little more complex on the Cheddar version, as they had a combined burner/ ignition holder, but what I have shown will do the job.

Basically the main mod is replacing the skinny firing tip on the fag lighter (10 for a £) unit with a more robust steel probe (about 2mm dia.). The ceramic holder is basically to prevent arcing to the boiler casing and to stop the red heat travelling along the probe as the probe goes thru the copper wall. I am sure a chunk of PTFE would do just as good a job.

If the burner hasn't got a straight holdown earthing bolt, as long as the burner is earthed to the baseplate, you could just fire it towards one of the metal edges on the burner. Mine jumps the spark to about 5mm long

Basically it was turn gas on, press the ignition button, no bangs or upwardly shooting flames, just a steady burning hiss from the burner, then wait for the hot stuff to do its work.

Clean the probe tip and top of the burner holdown screw occasionally to keep a nice healthy spark.

When you are playing about with the piezo units, be prepared to jump once in a while as it short circuits to yourself. I wouldn't recommend this to people who have pacemakers fitted.

This system could be used any which way the burner position is, as long as you can get thru the boiler wall to position the probe, and the burner is electrically connected (earthed) to the piezo unit base

John

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's.....& as Bogstandard notes....

When you are playing about with the piezo units, be prepared to jump once in a while as it short circuits to yourself. I wouldn't recommend this to people who have pacemakers fitted


Well thanks John...a picture when ever would be appreciated.... ...by kind courtesy of Sandy @ ACS...... I have a detailed construction drawing file of my ACS VB2 boiler & it cannot be modified as per your sketch........Sandy & I discussed such thoughts a few years ago

I remember Gerry & the Pacemakers. ...are they a different sort of thing to that you are talking about?  .........couldn't resist .....Derek

[steamboatmodel]

As John says
When you are playing about with the piezo units, be prepared to jump once in a while as it short circuits to yourself. I wouldn't recommend this to people who have pacemakers fitted

They do tell you when they install a pacemaker not to be near high voltage especially AC, Do NOT do any Electric Welding, Electric Discharge Machining etc. also any strong Magnetic sources. What happens is the Pacemaker picks up the AC as a heart pace and this throws out its programing. A magnettic probe is used when checking and reprogramming the pacemaker so you want to avoid magnets ( You don't carry your cell phone in your shirt pocket). Fortunately the signal put out by RC transmitters is low enough that it does not affect a pacemaker.
Regards,
Gerald