PS Adelaide...2007 New Construction - [Richard Bundy]

[Roderick Smith]

This is the best which I can do on the hard drive already: cropped and blown up, and not scanned afresh.
Oscar W's winch seems to be more elaborate, as it can be used as both winch and hoisting mechanism for the jib crane.
On this Randell Cadell 150th anniversary voyage, Oscar was carrying wood for itself and for other boats.  Wood would have been aboard barge Dart, but lack of crew resulted in the barge not leaving Goolwa.
Above lock 6, in the dreaded Warrakoo, Oscar was stuck on the bottom.  Some of the wood was offloaded; the winch was then used to haul the boat off the bar.
Back in the days, paddleboats not equipped with winches would wrap a rope around a paddle, and use this as a winch to get out of trouble.
I also saw the crane in action for the Goolwa - Port Elliot railway 150th anniversary: Oscar loaded two bales of wool at Milang, and offloaded them at Goolwa.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[Bill Hudson]

Richard,

Your winch looks pretty much authentic although I don't think plastic will hold much.    The spool should have a drum flange on the side near the bull gear. This drum serves two purposes. The outside is the brake drum while the inside should have a V groove around the inside at the outer circumference.  Between that drum and the bull gear (mounted to the bull gear) is a plate with a circular wedge shape clutch material.  On the opposite end of the spool shaft is a screw type clutch assembly operated by a leaver.  When this leaver is moved front to back (depending on how it is set up) the screw shoves the spool against the moving clutch on the bull gear thus engaging the spool to wind the cable in.

Roderick's picture has a combination winch. It has what looks like a spool for running a crane and also capstan winches for rope.

Richard, your hull looks really good. The no bulkhead gives you lots of room for engine and ballast.  

Bill

[Roderick Smith]

Spurred by Bill's helpful explanation I have taken time off from Feb.07 RNV to find and scan my best photos of Oscar W's compound winch.  These were taken from PS Industry, and I have cropped the excitement of the event - the wharf was packed with onlookers.  Former Deputy Prime Minister Fischer addressed the crowd, and stressed the importance of the 1854 event for Australian overseas trade, and drew a parallel with the recent extension of the railway to Darwin.  When hoisting of the bales commenced, I was in a position where the working winch was obscured from view.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[Roderick Smith]

The first is from the era when it was in Hopwood Gardens, Echuca.
It has not snowed in Echuca; and the boat is not decorated for Christmas.
The effect came when the print was made from a slide.
When I locate the slide (not this week), I will scan directly from it and replace this scan.
The photo was taken in Sept.65, and is from my father's collection.

The second is scanned from a print made from a slide using an interneg process, so is quite fuzzy when blown up.  It was taken in Sept.62, when PS Adelaide had been brought back to Echuca, but was not yet in the gardens.  Again, when I find the slide, I will go for a direct scan.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[bundyrap]

Thanks everybody for the input. I'm starting to get a better idea of how this winch goes together but  a few more detailed  pics of it as it is now would be invaluable.  
 
Attached are some scans of the plan I'm working from. Bill's explanation makes a lot of sense of how the winch should work but I can't really see the clutch in the plan drawings or in the attached pics of another small winch I found. Am I missing something? I'm also confused as to what colour the winch was. Roderick's pic looks like it was black yet the Hopgood park pic shows it as green.
 
Do the 2 attached Adelaide pics towing its barge show the cream and light brown colour scheme you are talking about Sean? I think the light cream colour I've used on the hull is too light and will need a respray. It certainly looks more like a working boat than a tourist boat in that scheme.
 
I've started working on the deck which is starting to give it some shape. Does the deck really curve away this much?

Richard

[bundyrap]

Just realized that red winch being a single cylinder has it's clutch on the small drive shaft. The Adelaide's with 2 cylinders couldn't work like this so would have to have a clutch on the bull gear as Bill explained but I can't see it in the drawings.

Richard

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's & well Richard.... being a traditionalist,  , but I was unsure of the frameless construction concept for the hull for your PS Adelaide....but from your :kewl ... I must say - we can all see the hull & well constructed deck supporting structure progressing

Remember [ :hmph ], I opened this thread for you as  :luck  ... please open your own PHOTO Gallery home page & upload a snap or so a week as history of the build

regards Derek  :computer....  .....  then we PD's can just..... :gather.... & have a   & enjoy the progress.............

[Excelsior]

I'm just posting some pics of the Adelaide, showing the winch, that I managed to find online.  Plus a recent one of her at the wharf.  It was part way through her refresh.  If you ignore the superstructure & look at the hull you can see the colour she wore after restoration for many years.

I've got to ask, what period are you hoping to model her in?  And, are you trying to be historically acurate?  If you are, I don't think she ever had a winch at the same time as having round style boxes.  And, until restoration she looked slightly different to what she does now.  Her wheelhouse was rebuilt in the period after conversion to square boxes.  Probably the during 30s, or 40s. It used to be much smaller & the roof of the upper deck had no overhang.

As for colours....  I'm not sure what she wore in her working life, but I'm pretty sure that in the 50s & 60s she was a light cream with dark green trims.  I'd also take a guess that the winch & machinery were painted black, but the winch may have been prettied up when preserved in the 60s.

By the way, sorry if my posts seem blunt, but I'm trying to type my thoughts before I forget them.  So they don't sound pretty  :

[Roderick Smith]

Mac Excelsior's images of Adelaide are wonderful.  I have only just viewed that magnificent video 'River boats remembered' for another thread.  It was assembled from multiple moving images held by the national film archive.  A lot of sequences feature PS Adelaide: in its working career, going up into the park in Echuca, and being returned to the river.
Since Richard Bundyrap lives in Australia, the video can be obtained by him readily.  I have yet to work out how overseas readers can obtain it (or even play it: it is VHS not Beta); but perhaps it is on dvd by now.

I am not a modeller, but I was impressed by a railway modeller, who had a diorama of Richmond (NSW) station.  I asked about the period in which it was set, and he gave a precise date.  I asked how he could be that precise with a model, and he pointed with pride to the height of the geraniums under the window, and showed me the (dated) photo on which it was based.  If the aim of modelling a paddleboat is utter authenticity, the same technique could be adopted.  Do authenticity and the ability to sail on sheltered water clash as design goals?

In another thread, we are tracing the ability to cruise a cardboard boat.  Apparently the technique is to encase the cardboard with fibreglass, then burn the cardboard away.  That is like the Australian recipe for galah (highly relevant to the paddleboat era): place the galah in a dixie (a large billy, ie cooking pot) of water, together with an old boot.  Boil until the boot is tender.  Throw away the galah and eat the boot.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[Excelsior]

Hey Bundy, have you ever thought about building the boat with square boxes?  It'd be a bit of a different model to the others out there.  I personally quite like the Adelaide with square boxes.  

You could even use a different name for the boat.  There's a kids novel called Mystery Aboard the Murrabit.  It was written in the 60s & the author did all the illustrations herself.  The Murrabit was very obviously the Adelaide.  In the text she even described the conversion from round to square boxes & the removal of the sunken cabin.  Using a different name would give you a little licence with colour & the like!

[Bill Hudson]

Richard,

looking at the pictures of the winch It looks like a different method of clutching is used on your side of the pond.  I am guessing, Looking at the winch from the engine side,  that the clutch band  (the band with all the bolt heads on it some how clamps down to force a tapered clutch plate tight against a clutch face which then drives the drum.  I doubt it operates like an automobile clutch as there does not seem to be any leaver or or apparatus to move a clutch plate side ways.  You will notice a small leaver (with a knob on the end)  just on top of the frame near the clutch. This leaver seems to operate a clamping mechanism which I think is the clutch.  it appears to me that the clutch reacquires a clamping motion to operate.

The brake is pretty obvious in the same picture.    (Edit)  Don't know where my head was this morning, this is the eccentric for the engine valve.     The brake is mounted on the drive shaft between the crank disk and the first bearing. It locks up the drive shaft and depends on the spur gear to lock the bull gear.
That is one cute little winch (pun intended).

PS.  It appears in the first b&w picture the boat had a larger winch with its own boiler mounted behind it.
Bill

[Eddy Matthews]

I just love those paddlewheel frames Richard - How soon can you knock up a set of four for me and post them to England?

[Bill Hudson]

Well I should have stayed in bed this morning.  upon closer inspection of the picture I see there is not a boiler on deck behind the winch as I said.  Maybe I should just put the other foot in my mouth while I at it. :ohno    

Bill

[thewharfonline]

I think Adelaide would have had a whinch with round or square boxes...as far as I'm aware they're pretty much a mainstay on the boats for when they got stuck...that or the paddle shaft. I suppose it depends on how much trouble you were in. Being in the logging industry I also think the whinch may have played a part in that.

Still a chance she doesn't have one though with rounds...checking through the Adelaide book by Helen Coulson. Little round photos were taken though when they were round wheels so that doesn't really help us in this situation.

Adelaide's classic colours- Creme and Chocolate Brown when she had round boxes.

Not Echuca Maroon and Creme, Green and White is Square Boxes.

There's no elegance about Adelaide with square boxes- I think that's her main appeal. The fact that although she was a workboat the shape of her hull and wheel boxes just seem to flow together so elegantly...almost as if she doesn't belong. Her cabins are also described as high class and elegant. (Comparible to Hero today perhaps)

The sunken cabin and round wheels are going to be a challenge for Richard, Excellsior...the plans he has are for the square box and raised cabin, but I'm pretty sure it was the challenge of converting the plans (as there doesn't seem to be much available in regards to round boxes) that appeals.

If I was any good at modelling I'd give it a go...

Hey Richard...how much would you charge for an Adelaide?

She's looking really good so far. The wheels are great, the hull looks perfect.

Oh Just noticed the colour comment- wondered what towing photos had to do with whinch...now I know. Yes that is the colour scheme, I have to scan my photo for you, it's in a frame on my bedside table, it's a very light creme, it makes the brown trim stand out. Towing...lots of fun! If you're interested in making an outrigger barge for your Adelaide I have lots of photos of that too Richard.

[bundyrap]

Thanks for some really interesting replies and I'll do my best to cover them. Love those old working black and white pics.
 
I don't have an actual date in mind to base my Adelaide on. I do like the round box, sunken cabin look but the 'Murrabit' is a tantalizing thought. My wife and best mate Patsy has found a copy of the book thru Amazon at a second hand book store in NSW and has order it. It will be filed away as a future building project - the idea of a fantasy paddle boat does appeal.
 
For those Australians reading this they will know what I mean when I say it is all about  'the vibe' of the Adelaide and that is what I'm trying to capture rather than an actual date. Round boxes, sunken cabin, cream and brown trim with a dirty big winch is where I'm heading at the moment. I'm planning to make the superstructure lift off for access so making both a square box and round version is all ways an option. The rear cabin will also lift off for radio access so sunken or full depth is an option here too but there would issues with different shapes involved not just height.
 
Where can I get a copy of the "River Boats Remembered " video?? This is a lazy question before I go looking.
 
No trouble to knock you out some paddle wheels Eddie. If you have a drawing with dimensions it should be no worries. Cost would be plywood and postage. Just let me know.
 
 
Sure I could make you an Adelaide Sean :)   As I build I'm saving all the CNC files so a second one would be much easier and quicker. As a separate project I'm also building 101" B-25 Mitchell bomber - still haven't got these things out of my system! This is my third but this time it will be fully moulded and the techniques I'm using for it would work brilliantly for another Adelaide. It involves CNC cutting a plug from foam, texturing it with .25mm plastic sheets with rivet or nail detail and then making an epoxy female mould. This would have produced a far more detailed hull so there will have to be a second Adelaide to satisfy me.
 
Richard