APAM- The Directors Cut!

[thewharfonline]

On the Murray Eddy the boats were mainly used as cargo and work boats- passenger boats tended to just be a work boat with a spare cabin for someone to cruise on. Ferries weren't really a thing on the Murray- large distances between towns.

I'll get onto a map.

Car ferries (non paddler) are still used at some points along the river (Berri for instance) and I know that one or two of these were once powered by small paddlers.

For paddlers that are more like ferries I think you would have to look slightly further far afield.

PS Ozone, Hygiea and...the third one I can't remember on Port Phillip Bay in Victoria were passenger ferries. (Or as far as I am aware)

Then there are the Manly ferries...I think...in Sydney.

I think the use of paddler ferries wasn't too big here because of the distances between towns. Remeber Australia is much bigger than the UK so it often takes hours (by road) to get from town to town.

As for Rail Ferries I am aware of none.

[Eddy Matthews]

Thanks for the reply Sean - I would have thought that the larger distances between towns would make passenger ferries more likely, not less likely?

Going back before the days of the internal combustion engine, travelling by road was a slow process, so passenger ferries were widely used - Just look at the USA for many examples!

Hence my confusion over not seeing anything in the Aussie threads - And ferries for carrying road vehicles, originally horse drawn and later perhaps cars or trains, must have been used before bridges were built? It's much cheaper to build a boat than a bridge!

Perhaps this is an area that deserves further research? I'm fairly confident that these vessels must have existed in Australia...

[PJ]

Check out the Manly Ferries
 

  ----- Original Message -----
   From:    Eddy Matthews (research@paddleducks.co.uk)
   To: research@paddleducks.co.uk (research@paddleducks.co.uk)
   Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:33  PM
   Subject: RE: APAM- The Directors    Cut!
   

   
Unless I've missed something (quite probable!) I    haven't seen anything in the Aussie threads about passenger carrying paddlers,    or paddle ferries for cars/trains or whatever...

I mean boats that were    originally built for that purpose, not vessels that were later converted to    carry passengers etc....

Did such things exist? Surely they must    have?


     
Regards
Eddy


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[Excelsior]

Purpose built passenger ferries were used in Australia, but mainly in areas like Sydney Harbour, Port Phillip Bay (the third vessel Sean mentioned was the Weeroona), the Gippsland Lakes, the Hawkesbury & the Swan rivers.  In these areas, though, the day of the paddlesteamer was pretty short lived.  Australia progessed to screw propulsion fairly early.

On the Murray there were only a couple of purpose built passenger vessels.  Due to the river conditions, the lower population density & the large distance between towns (especially by river where the distance travelled was generally 2-3 times the distance by road), the Murray passenger boats were very different from those you would see on other systems.  The current Ruby & the Pearl of 1891 were both purpose built passenger steamers.

The only area on the Murray where there were services similar to what you'd see elsewhere was Lake Alexandrina.  Here there were vessels such as the Jupiter & Milang which operated ferry services.  Their deckhouses were very simple compared to other boats.  No upper deck & a lot of open space everywhere.  The Jupiter was converted to this role, but I think the Milang was built for it.  Although, other than the deckhousing, the Milang was similar to other boats in her hull & machinery.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD’s & hullo PJ…….here is a listing of the paddle vessels that plied from waters of Sydney harbour in Australia & were termed as the Manly ferries or combined with duties of ferries/tugs  
   
The Brothers 1847>1886  
Warlingtin 1851>?  
Herald 1854>1884  
Nora Creiner 1854>?  
The Huntress 1854>1857  
Planet 1855>?  
Black Swan 1854>?  
Phantom 1858>1878  
Clommel 1859>1878  
Culloden 1867>?  
Breadalbane 1853>1884  
Goolwa 1864>1919  
Cobra 1871>1873  
Commodore 1878>1898  
Fairlight 1878>1912  
Brighton 1883>1916  
   
This listing is courtesy of …Mead. Tom….Manly Ferries of Sydney Harbour ….ISBN 0 86777 091 0….[1988]  
   
It appears that in the early days [1854>1857] any unsuspecting passenger from Circular Quay enroute to Manly [40 minute trip] may have experienced the Captain of the ferry/tug approaching the heads of Sydney harbour… seeing an incoming sailing vessel…and promptly divert to assist with the tow back to the city near Circular Quay!!!!!!!!!!  
   
The passenger’s certainly got their 1/50 shilling’s worth trip, being a five hour voyage back to Circular Quay & then 6 hours late back to home  
   
Derek  
   
   
         
 
From: Paul Jordan [mailto:research@paddleducks.co.uk]
 Sent: Tuesday, 13 March 2007 11:10 AM
 To: research@paddleducks.co.uk
 Subject: Re: APAM- The Directors Cut!  
 
   
Check out the Manly Ferries            
   

   
               
         
 

 
 
 
 
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[Roderick Smith]

Most of my references are still being unearthed as I rearrange my library at the conclusion of house reconstruction.

Australia's few train & tram ferries were not paddle vessels.

Most/all Murray car ferries were punts, and so used a winding mechanism onto a fixed cable.  This was also true of Williamstown & Raymond Island (Victoria), Moggill (Qld).

Somebody has listed every paddle vessel in the Sydney ferry book.

Here is the Victoria list, from Jack Loney 'Bay Steamers and coastal ferries', Reed (1988 update of 1982 first edition). Isbn 0 909191 38 7

Port Melbourne - Williamstown (a local ferry run)
PS Agenoria
PS Comet
PS Fairy Queen
PS Geelong
PS Kangaroo
PS Queen
PS Gem (40 years on the service)
PS Royal Oak
PS Emu
PS Victoria

Melbourne - Geelong
PS Aphrasia
PS Breadalbane
PS Citizen
PS Duncan Hoyle
PS Geelong
PS Luna
PS Maitland
PS Melbourne
PS Phantom
PS Prince Albert
PS Reliance
PS Shandon
PS Thames
PS Vesta
PS Victoria
plus PS Bellarine (ex Murray PS Dispatch): Geelong to Point Henry tea gardens

Bay excursion
PS Golden Crown
PS Williams
PS Mystery
PS Lonsdale
PS Ozone
PS Hygiea
PS Weeroona

West coast: virtually all were SS, not PS
PS Juno
PS Manchester

East coast:
PS Corsair
PS Avon
PS Black Boy
PS Charles Edward
PS Murray
PS Thistle
PS Trio

Bass strait
PS Seahorse (Sea Horse?)
PS Newcastle (the last ocean-going paddlesteamer built for Australian waters, 1884)
PS Clarence
PS Clonmel
PS Shamrock
PS Yarra Yarra

Also mentioned:
PS Corsair
PS Emu (paddle tug)

There will be overlaps, as boats were sold and transferred to new territories.  A common pattern was to be bought second-hand from UK or NSW to be used in Victoria, then set out (as a totally unsuitable vessel) to NZ, carrying hopeful prospectors to the Otago gold rush, then to sink en route.

I have yet to unearth my books on Yarra River or Lake Wendouree.

I am still heading up the Murray with my posts, currently at Colignan.  I was looking for a good map to post; Derek has now posted a good one.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[Roderick Smith]

Eddy's confidence is not misplaced.

...I would have thought that the larger distances between towns would make passenger ferries more likely, not less likely?
Going back before the days of the internal combustion engine, travelling by road was a slow process, so passenger ferries were widely used - Just look at the USA for many examples!
Hence my confusion over not seeing anything in the Aussie threads - And ferries for carrying road vehicles, originally horse drawn and later perhaps cars or trains, must have been used before bridges were built? It's much cheaper to build a boat than a bridge!...

Without going through Parsons, many boats had passenger accommodation on the second deck, behind the wheelhouse and officers' cabins.  I suspect that meals were brought upstairs from a kitchen in a sponson cabin.  Passengers would have included government officials, property owners, bank officials, ministers, magistrates, people travelling from sheep stations to the big cities for medical reasons or education etc.
I have mentioned in another post, before the late 1880s connection of Adelaide to Melbourne by rail there were three modes of travel:
* The sea voyage: quite uncomfortable and dangerous.
* A hybrid surface voyage by train, lake ferry, horse coach and train.
* The inland voyage by Murray paddlesteamer to Echuca, then train.  This was slower, and seasonal, but safe and scenic.

With sparse settlement, the ferries would have been infrequent.
I have also come across a reference to multiple ferries competing for the Echuca - Albury sector of the inland link from Melbourne to Sydney.
Train from Melbourne to Echuca; paddlesteamer to Albury; horse coach to the advancing railhead from Sydney.  From 1873, it was more efficient to ride the new railway to Wodonga.  By 1883, the nation's largest two cities were connected by train (break of gauge at Wodonga/Albury).

I'll have to look up the Clarence River train ferries as I unpack my library.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[thewharfonline]

I have also read about a service that ran between Goolwa and Adelaide- out through the mouth and along the coast to Adelaide.

Can't remember when it ran or what boats, but I'm pretty sure it was a paddler service.

[Roderick Smith]

Most unlikely Sean (Adelaide - Goolwa by paddlesteamer through the mouth):
The mouth was largely unnavigable, and was dangerous, and was bypassed by a railway from 1854 for this very reason.
1854: Goolwa - Port Elliot
1864: Port Elliot - Victor Harbor (a safer port than Port Elliot)
1869: Middleton - Strathalbyn.  Horse coaches ran from Adelaide to Strathalbyn, and on to Milang to connect by lake ferry to Meningie, and hence horse coach to the advancing railhead from Melbourne.
1883: Adelaide - Strathalbyn.
1884: Sandergrove - Milang.  Trains now connected from Adelaide to lake ferries there.
1886: Nairne - Murray Bridge
1887: Murray Bridge - Serviceton and on to Melbourne.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[thewharfonline]

I swear I read something about it- it's a very early thing, failry early in river navigation on the lower Murray.

Maybe it was to Port Elliot.

I'll see if I can find where I read it.

It would have been before the railway was installed there is that the Milang one Roderick?

The railway (light railway?) that cut across country to Adelaide...

[Excelsior]

I'm pretty sure that Sean is right.  There was a service in the late 1850s, I think you'll find that Cadell's group used a chartered vessel called Melbourne for a regular service through the mouth.

[Roderick Smith]

Anonymous Excelsior has made the unsubstantiated claim that Cadell ran a regular service through the Murray mouth.
The only available reference is Parsons, and the book gives no evidence of this at all.
It passed in though the mouth on 19.8.1854, and out again on 28.8.1854.  The next quote from Parsons mentions the wrecking in the mouth on 16.11.1859.
Some boats passed through the mouth when being transferred to new owners and locations, but there is so far no evidence of a regular scheduled service.
Evidence might be found by searching the archive of contemporary Adelaide newspapers, looking for advertisements of available passages, but that hasn't been done yet.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[Excelsior]

I apologise. I got the vessel wrong, but yes, Cadell had a couple of attempts (failed) to run a regular service through the mouth.  Neither of the boats were paddlers.  The first used the SS Corio & only lasted a few months in 1857 before she was grounded at the mouth and due to an insurance dispute the vessel was sold off.  This service was an Adelaide-Goolwa run.

There's also mention of Cadell using the SS Ruby in 1860 to carry riverine wool through the mouth to Melbourne.  There's no real indication of how long this operation continued, only that it was Cadell's last season on the rivers.  So, presumably, there were only a few trips.  I couldn't say for sure whether either of these runs carried passengers, but it's likely that there were a few berths.

If you want to know where I got this information, it came from Parsons.  In my edition there are brief paragraphs on pages 22 & 23.  Cadell's attempts at regular navigation of the mouth are also briefly mentioned in Ian Mudie's book (apparently the Ruby ran all the way up river to Wentworth).  While you're looking at Parsons, though, you might want to look up SS Queen of the South.  This vessel was built for George Johnston specifically for a regular service between Goolwa & Adelaide.  Which it did for a year before there was an incident at the mouth which may, or may not, have been the reason for the government withdrawing the bounty paid to the owner for running the service.  This service is also mentioned in Gwenda Painter's "A Different River".

[Roderick Smith]

The reason that Eddy has missed seeing anything on these: they weren't paddle.

* Clarence River, Grafton (NSW): Photos of ferries SS Swallow (converted in 1924) & SS Induna (converted in 1926) are at
www.sutcliffegallery.com.au/cat/ (/Transport.htm & /Grafton.htm)
They weren't paddle.
Swallow had three tracks: using either the centre solo, or the outer pair, according to the load beeing carried.  It had twin funnels.
Induna had a single track, and only one funnel.
Only wagons and carriages being transferred to workshops crossed on the ferries.  Passengers and luggage went by motor vehicle on the car ferry.
The rail section of the new twin-deck bridge (with a bascule span) was commissioned in 1932.
Information from articles by R Bremner in July 82 and Oct.83 New South Wales Rail Trasport Museum 'Roundhouse'.

* Hawkesbury River (NSW).  In 1887, the railway from Sydney reach Brooklyn, and the railway from Newcastle reached Gosford.  Pending completion of Hawkesbury River bridge and Woy Woy tunnel, SWPS General Gordon was used from 15.8.1887 to connect the two railheads via the the river and and Brisbane Water.  It carried only passengers and mail, not railway rollingstock.
It had been built in 1886 at Terrigal:
length 117 ft, 36 m
beam 25.5 ft, 7.8 m
hull depth 5.5 ft, 1.7 m
draft 18 in, 45 cm
164 tons
vertical boiler driving a 55 hp engine (an unusually high rating; possible error in the source?)
The crossing of Broken Bay (the inland side of the Hawkesbury mouth) could be rough.
With the completion of the tunnel, the route was altered to run up Mullet Creek to a temporary station, a shorter and easier journey, from 16.1.1888.
A large punt (ie barge?) could be used to transfer three wagons or one loco on a single journey; apparently only in the Mullet Creek era.  Earlier equipment would have been shipped to Newcastle (or built there).
The bridge was opened on 1.5.1889.
General Gordon continued to be used as an excursion vessel for many years.
Information from C C Singleton 'the Short North; the Sydney - Newcastle link railway' part 3, in Sept.65 Australian Railway Historical Society Bulletin.

* The Manly tram system was connected to the northern Sydney system by a cable punt at The Spit.  This was used only when transferring trams from one system to the other; passengers changed from tram to ferry to a waiting tram.  The first twin-bascule bridge at the location was opened in 1924, but without a tram track.  Passengers had to walk across the bridge.  The Manly system was closed in 1933, and the trams were brought back to the main system using the punt.  A new twin-bascule bridge was commissioned in 1958.
Information from:
* L A Clark 'North of the harbour', ARHS, 1976; Isbn 0 909650 05 5.
* www.manly.nsw.gov.au/IgnitionSuite/uploads/docs/Spit%20Bridge%20fact-sheet.pdf

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[AlistairD]

The third large paddle steamer was WEEROONA. These  were like large Clyde steamers in design
 Â 
 Alistair
 

  ----- Original Message -----
   From:    thewharfonline (research@paddleducks.co.uk)
   To: research@paddleducks.co.uk (research@paddleducks.co.uk)
   Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:02    PM
   Subject: RE: APAM- The Directors    Cut!
   

   
On the Murray Eddy the boats were mainly used as cargo    and work boats- passenger boats tended to just be a work boat with a spare    cabin for someone to cruise on. Ferries weren't really a thing on the Murray-    large distances between towns.

I'll get onto a map.

Car ferries    (non paddler) are still used at some points along the river (Berri for    instance) and I know that one or two of these were once powered by small    paddlers.

For paddlers that are more like ferries I think you would    have to look slightly further far afield.

PS Ozone, Hygiea and...the    third one I can't remember on Port Phillip Bay in Victoria were passenger    ferries. (Or as far as I am aware)

Then there are the Manly ferries...I    think...in Sydney.

I think the use of paddler ferries wasn't too big    here because of the distances between towns. Remeber Australia is much bigger    than the UK so it often takes hours (by road) to get from town to    town.

As for Rail Ferries I am aware of none.


     
APAM- Australian Paddler Appreciation Month
Show your support for    Aussie Paddlers this month on www.paddleducks.co.uk


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