River Clyde (Scotland) sternwheeler

[wsnowdon]

Back again with another request. I have come across brief mention of
a short lived stern wheel ferry used briefly in the river Clyde in
the 1850s possibly designed by Napier.Stern wheelers for British
Isles service are rare as hens teeth, so this one is intreguing.
anyone got any further information on this- date, name, pictures,fate
etc. any little helps. Regards, Walter.

[Dallinson]

Walter
I have had a look through the listings of paddle ships in the back of Capt
Williamsons book (Clyde Passenger Steamers from 1812 to 1904), and there is
no mention of a stern wheeler. There are certainly no photos and no mention
in the text, that I can remember reading. That is probably the best
reference book I have.
Sorry about that.
Regards
David

[Paulrjordan]

Hi Walter and Seasons Greetings from Canada!

Ref: Your Clyde Sternwheeler, I've also tried to find one and nothing
came up that actually operated on the Clyde (not to intimate in any
way that one didn't). However if you have a look in your Denny's
List there are dozens of sternwheelers made for export and you'd
think ONE might have stayed at "home".

I recently purchased a rather interesting and fairly rare book
called "The Irrawaddy Flotilla Company" by Chubb and Duckworth which
details every ship in that extensive fleet. The majority of the
sternwheelers were built at Denny's in Dumbartion but one thing
struck me. The freeboard on these sternwheelers is low and I wonder
just how high a sea a sternwheeler (essentially a riverboat)can
sustain. The Irrawaddy Delta is a huge body of water and you'd think
not unlike the Clyde. So why weren't they also used on the Clyde
where so many of them were built?

It's an interesting thought spurred by your original question,
Walter.

Our Pacific Northwest Sternwheelers certainly navigated the open sea
up the Pacific Coastline, and the Klondike ships had to go up the
Straits of Georgia which can be quite bumpy. My question is...what
kind of sea can a sternwheeler handle and, if they are able to handle
a sea (I mean, look at those old pictures of them shooting rapids!)
then why didn't the Scots (who built so many for export) ever use
them on their own inland waters (Clyde, Lomond, Ness, etc). The
European preference has invariably been for sidewheelers and I have
never heard of a sternwheeler being used in the UK or in Europe
(Alastair, correct me!)so the question is WHY, when there are so many
rivers and lakes they COULD have operated on.

The bottom line of this is...if we can find European Sternwheelers,
then what a GREAT subject for modeling they (it?) would make!

TJ...Alastair...PD's...got any thoughts?

PJ
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

[Dallinson]

PJ/Walter
Why didn't they use stern wheelers on the Clyde? Good question.

Here is my two pennyworth.

The passenger trade on the Clyde was a very competitive business indeed and
was ALL about getting there first. I believe that the side wheelers tended
to have sleeker hulls and be faster than the generally rather bluff shaped
stern wheelers at the time.

The ships that ran on the Clyde also ran out into the open sea where there
was often a considerable swell around the Islands, such as Arran. The stern
wheeler is clearly not well suited to any form of pitching induced by a
swell. Confused waters in river rapids is one thing, biggish swells are
quite another.

One always thinks of the old stern wheelers with their bow gangways, nosing
into the shallow river banks anywhere they could. This dictated that the
motive power had to be at the stern, to avoid hitting the bottom. This was
not necessary on the Clyde where they usually ran from fixed piers and
wharfs with an adequate depth of water.

Hope that the above has moved this interesting discussion along a little?

Regards
David

[Paulrjordan]

Hi David...excellent, these are very valid points and have me
thinking again about the whole question. I think you nailed much of
it in the "need for speed" and "shallow river banks" issues.

Denny's of Dumbarton built both sidewheelers and sternwheelers for
the Irrawaddy Flotilla all during the same period and I'm trying to
find out if the sidewheelers of the Irrawaddy Flotilla navigated
different stretches of water to their sternwheelers, and so give a
clue to their respective suitability to different conditions. The
Irrawaddy Flotilla commissioned sternwheelers right up to its massive
fleet scuttling in 1942.

An interesting sidebar! Yarrows built quite a few of the fleet's
sternwheelers in both Glasgow and a handful in VANCOUVER, Canada!

Treacherous snags and shifting shoals are legendary in river
navigation and this undoubtedly determines a need for very shallow
draft vessels...I can understand the lack of sternwheelers on the
Clyde and British Coastal waters for exactly the reasons you mention,
David, but yet I still have this niggling question in my mind as to
why we have never seen sternwheelers operating on the LAKES of
Europe..or did they?

And turning to Australia...the Murray River was a pretty difficult
River to navigate (apparently still is in some stretches)...and since
sternwheelers are more suited to treacherous rivers, have they ever
been used on that river too...and if not, why not?

These are just musings on my part brought about by a few days of
overdue R & R...and always with the intention of trying to uncover
that "out-of-the-ordinary" subject for paddler modeling. Yup...a
European or Murray River sternwheeler..that would be a blast!!!!!

The "Irrawaddy Flotilla" also included many sidewheelers, the
majority of which were built(or fabricated) on the Clyde. They bear
only a perfunctory resemblance to Clyde paddlers, the most notable
differences being their far lower freeboard and open, full length
double (and in the case of PS "Theoreah" [1879], triple)decks. They
also look quite different to their North American counterparts.The
Irrawaddy Flotilla paddlers (including the elusive quarter-wheelers)
would make VERY interesting modeling subjects too!

Regards to you all as always!

PJ
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

[wsnowdon]

Thanks for looking David, I have come up with a little more
infprmation courtesy of ECHO OF OLD CLYDE PADDLE WHEELS, WRITTEN BY
ANDREW MCQUEEN, PUBLISHED 1924 (page 18 Refers to a stern wheeler
named KILMUN which ran on the clyde for a brief time in 1864 before
being laid up. Designed by David Napier and had run prior to that for
some years on the Severn. Havnt found its name while on that river,
so still searching!. Happy new year to you all may your rudders keep
waggling for another year ! Walter.