Paddlewheels and drive systems

[Edward Matthews]

Hi all,

I was just wondering if any of you would care to share your methods
of building paddle wheels and their drive systems?

The only paddler I've ever built was fitted with some lovely brass
wheels that I found in a model shop whilst on holiday a few years
ago. So I have absolutely no experience in making paddle wheels!

I think that this is an area that puts off a lot of potential
modellers as paddlers are so unlike any other models we may build in
their propulsion method.... So apart from the daunting task of
cutting out and then soldering together hundreds of small brass
parts, what other methods can we use? What differences (if any) are
there in constructing side wheels and stern wheels? What's the best
method of driving the wheels (both sidewheel and sternwheel)?

If you have a particular method of construction, how about making a
few sketches of the various stages and posting them onto the PD site?

Regards
Eddy

[Joe E Brown]

Information on how I made the working pitman system on my George M.
Verity can be found at my web site.
http://www.dragg.net/jbrown

[Edward Matthews]

Thanks for that Joe. It looks like it's exactly what I need for my
next sternwheeler project. The only thing that worries me is trying
to get everything made and aligned accurately so it works smoothly.

Any hints or tips on that side of things?

Regards
Eddy

[Joe E Brown]

The way I figured how to make it work was to do every thing in twos.
I made the wheel first, then mounted it with bearings. I used sheet
brass to make my cranks. I made a drawing of one and then placed four
pieces of brass together and vut the pattern out. That made me four
pieces alike and I drilled my holes for the shaft and pitman arm
before taking them apart si I know they're the same. After I made my
cranks I used rectangle brass stock to make the pitman arms. Again I
placed two rectangle pieces together to be sure they were the same
length and had the holes drilled in the same place.

The hard part is after you make the mechanism to push the pitman arm
back and fouth. you need for the crank on it to be the same diameter
as the crank on your shaft. So it's best to make them the same time
you make your wheel cranks. If you have all four of the cranks with
the same distance from the shaft hole to the hole for the pitman arms
to mount then there should be no problem with binding and the wheel
should turn smoothly.

[george britnell]

Hi Eddy,
I am writing in regard to your question on paddlewheel
construction. On the drawings for the "Suter that you
received I had drawn the paddlewheel for a sternwheel
type boat. It is shown in solid and is also shown in a
blown apart view. If you would like I could send some
text explaining how I built and assembled it. Other
than the hubs and the U bolts which I machined from
brass the remainder was constructed from maple and
basswood. I am sure a person could substitute any type
of wood for the construction.
As far as a drive system, I was going to use a shaft
and a set of bevel gears at the paddlewheel end. Not
protypical but when I thought about using some type of
belt drive I rejected that idea because the belt would
be pulling water back into the boat unless you
enclosed the whole works and I figured that would be
more obtrusive than a small shaft. It would be nice to
use a crosshead type system wherein the crank arms
would actually do the turning but the mechanics inside
the hull have to have somewhat of a precision to them
to keep the 90 degree cranks in step. Too fiddly for
something that you want to take out to the lake and
just have fun. Anyway if I can be of any help please
feel free to ask.
Sincerely,
George D. Britnell "SUTER"

[Edward Matthews]

> I am writing in regard to your question on paddlewheel
> construction. On the drawings for the "Suter that you
> received I had drawn the paddlewheel for a sternwheel
> type boat. It is shown in solid and is also shown in a
> blown apart view. If you would like I could send some
> text explaining how I built and assembled it.

Yes please George.... It's the "Suter" that I'm thinking of building
next, so any help or advice you can give would be very welcome! I
knew I'd get around to building it one day!! :-)


> As far as a drive system, I was going to use a shaft
> and a set of bevel gears at the paddlewheel end. Not
> protypical but when I thought about using some type of
> belt drive I rejected that idea because the belt would
> be pulling water back into the boat unless you
> enclosed the whole works and I figured that would be
> more obtrusive than a small shaft. It would be nice to
> use a crosshead type system wherein the crank arms
> would actually do the turning but the mechanics inside
> the hull have to have somewhat of a precision to them
> to keep the 90 degree cranks in step. Too fiddly for
> something that you want to take out to the lake and
> just have fun.

I like Joe Browns pitman drive system, it would look very realistic,
but I am concerned about making it so that everything aligns properly
and it runs smoothly - My metal working abilities aren't the
greatest, so I hope he comes back with a few hints and tips to help
in the construction of the drive system.

Failing that I'll have to look at some sort of belt or geared system
as you suggest.

Regards
Eddy

[Joe E Brown]

Eddy,
I can always take more pictures of it installed in the Verity and
anything else you may need. Lord knows I have learned a lot watching
other modelers and asking questions. My setup is simular to one I saw
many years ago in a sternwheeler so I can't take full credit for it.
It does work nice though, and it's great to watch those pitmans move
back and fourth.

[dragoncity]

Eddie,
why not have a look at using a geared drive ?
I was looking at a wrecked RC model car the other day and thinking
that the final drive unit ( sort of differential) could fairly easily
be used on a sternwheeler paddle.

Cheep too ! and made of plastic which seems to be your prefered medium :-)
Cheers,
Brett S Hallett

[Dai Powell]

Hi Brett,
how do you recon that "differential gear would go on a
sidewheeler, would the inner paddle-wheel travel at a slower speed
than the outer one? as on a car or would both wheels turn in
opposite directions as car wheels do if the car is jacked up off the
ground.............Dai Powell

[Derek Warner]

come on Dai - we OZ people humbled by our worldly ancestry can
do just about anything, so if we translate (sort of differential) that Brett
mentions it's just that - I can visualise it & apart from that I think it was
only the nothern hemisphere who had toy vessels with inner & outer wheels
that were enjoyed by kids [in their once a year bath] to counter the
direction whirl of the water rushing down the plug hole - Derek

[Dai Powell]

Come on Aussi come on, Derek I kid you not!, I have in my posession
a plastic radio controlled model "all terrain vehicle" defunct as
far as radio control is concerned but it does have an apparently
working diff that does appear to act in the same fashion as a real
car, I haven't stripped it as I was hoping to be able to salvage
some of the electronics and didn't want to "muck it up" until I had
to however if it could work (differentially that is), it may be
advantagious to use the diff gear on my Pevensey side-wheeler so
what do you think (Anyone).............Dai Powell

[george britnell]

Gentlemen,
First off, I think that what was meant initially was
to use the bevel gear system (right angle drive geared
down) to transmit power to a stern paddlewheel. I had
sent a note to Eddy mentioning a very similar thing.
On a lot of the newer sternwheelers that are used for
excursions and sightseeing on the "western waters" of
the U.S. they use a massive chain drive powered by
diesel engines. To use a similar system on a model
would require an enclosure so as to not have the
splash carried back into the boat. Asthetically I
thought that having a small shaft with a bevel gear at
the hub of the paddlwheel would look less obtrusive
than a full length enclosure for a belt. The systems
that use a crank type system are very pleasing to look
at but in Eddy's case he said that he didn't have the
tools to work in metal for that type of application.
As for the second part of this conversation about
using differential gearing for a sidewheeler, you
don't have the same physics applied as you do in an
automobile. When an automobile turns a corner the
inner wheel turns slower because it is going around a
smaller radius the same as a vessel would do, the
difference is that the inner wheel on the car has
enought friction with the road to inhibit it's
rotation. The paddlewheel on the inside of the turn
has nothing to restrict it's rotation (slip I think is
what it's called in nautical terms) so therefore it
might work or then again in might not. The only way to
make it work would be to use the differntial type
gearing and then have a braking mechanism for either
side operated by the the steering servo. When you
would steer to starboard it would apply the starboard
brake mechanism thus effectively slowing or stopping
the rotation of that paddlewheel so that the port
wheel would turn ("faster"?) How much faster?
I hope my two cents worth has brought some enjoyment
to all concerned.
George D. Britnell (SUTER model)

[Joe E Brown]

The Ward Works in Charleston WV used to build sternwheelers with
split wheels and operated by differentials mounted in the middle.
Most of the split wheels were driven on a single shaft, but later
they built double axles where one half of the wheel could be reversed
while the other pushes forward.

[Dai Powell]

Hi George,
thanks for the notion of "Braking" the inner wheel I was
wondering how to apply retarding pressure to the wheel on the inside
if the turn (with the lack of "ground" to hold back the wheel)
brakes on the shaft would do it fine, it would only need a very
small amount of friction to do that and with the Diff in the line
would not overload the drive motor Thanks again ...........Dai
Powell

[Derek Warner]

Dai - when I read what I have done to your differential text, we all
can laugh [with each other]

But did I miss a post?? - are you actually building a model of Pevensey??
If I have missed it, or we OZ people would be very happy to read about
your version of her - please come back etc - Derek