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Author Topic: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer  (Read 2628 times)

Offline optima21

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Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« on: February 15, 2021, 10:06:40 AM »
I like the look of this paddle steamer from Hobby's in the UK and can remember it from their annuals 30 years ago.



and I plan to build something that looks similar but only 300mm long, and this will be my first attempt at scratch building a model boat, so for me it'll be an interesting project and hopefully it will be successful, but at this stage I have no way of knowing.

so the first thing I do was to carve a wooden hull as a prototype to see its possible and Im be constructing the majority of it from styrene.



at this stage it it would float as long as I can keep the weight down should work.

the first thing that I needed to sort out was the radio control. Im using Flysky as I can get small receivers that work down to 3.5V so can be used from a single lipo cell. I plan on using tank steering  without a rudder which has meant that I can use a reciever and 2 speed controllers to operate the model by using mixing the channels. I had issues with a new micro receiver and signal converter, which caused it to stop working occasionally, so I ended up using the old recievers that I'd been using on other models and ended up modifying the gimbals on the transmitter so that I could disconnect 2 channels so that I could mix then to do other things. its not as simple as unpluging cable, but cutting a wire and soldering a preset resistor in. Also shown is the final setup that I think I'll be using, The motors are N20 geared motors running at 250 rpm, I did try faster ones but they were just causing the water to cavitate. It also shows a close up of the speed controller, to reduce their footprint and make wiring easier I just stacked them on top of one another (with the receiver in the background). Just for scale the circuit boards are 15mm x 16mm. The battery, motors and radio control gear weigh 35 grams and should give an hours running time.

As I have a hull to play with, I think the next part of this project will be to make some simple paddle wheels with 8 and 12 paddles and different widths to see which will work best. For the time it will take its best to do it now rather than later and find that the paddle boxes are too small.






Offline DamienG

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Re: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2021, 09:44:26 PM »
 :bravo :beer :clap

Offline derekwarner_decoy

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Re: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2021, 02:19:07 PM »
This is looking to be a sound plan  :whistle.......your thoughts of complimenting the actual paddle shaft speed [via the speed controllers] plus additional paddle blade width is good

You mention the geared motors are 250 RPM 'unloaded', however the actual reduction ration wlll be rather high 5:1?, so with the level of mechanical advantage/torque, the reduced shaft speed in and due to the load induced by the water may well be in the 200 RPM ball park which may still be high enough to cause unwanted cavitation

In our case, paddle cavitation is a lot of huff+puff but going nowhere fast

Without going to the expense of a digital tachometer [$50.00 AUD] a simple elcheapo multimeter [$10.00 AUD] will provide you with current draw which the value of loading on the motor......unloaded = x milliAmp......thumb+forefinger on the output shaft = y Amps  :ranting

Keep us posted with your progress

Derek :beer

 
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

Offline optima21

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Re: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2021, 10:43:45 AM »
The two motors that I'm using are sold as 3v 300rpm motors, and off load are both near enough 250rpm and speed can be adjusted easily via the transmitter. The speed controllers Ive used are Dasmikro 1S5A ones and can handle up to 5 amps and operate down to 3.5V

https://www.dronejunkie.co.uk/dasmikro-1s5a-micro-bi-directional-esc

but as the stall current for these motors is only 0.5A, Im looking to be using 1A speed controllers and and waiting for one of these to try it.

https://www.banggood.com/DOMAN-Mini-1A-Bidirectional-DIY-CW-CCW-Brushed-ESC-Board-for-RC-Drone-p-1649242.html?cur_warehouse=CN&ID=6134703&rmmds=search

these can operate between 3.5 V and 6V so would be able to operate these motors from a 5V supply which means that you can power them from a servo lead which adds to their versatility as Im looking to be using then to make tiny bow thrusters for other models

and for checking power consumption (amps and volts) while under load in water I ended up getting one of these USB power usage monitors, as they can work between 3.5V and 7V and measure upto 3 amps.  its not too bad for giving a rough indication, and I end up replacing UBS connectors with battery leads and replacing the plastic case with heatshrink to make it more compact and save weight.

Ive also made some new paddles for testing, the pics show drilling the centres and they are a push fit on the motor spindles. it took me a while to work out a simple way to align the paddles as I was originally going to over engineer a jig but it ended up being a case of drilling some holes on a pitch circle diameter (pcd), and there are websites that can calculate the position of the holes

https://littlemachineshop.com/mobile/bolt_circle.php

then the pins were pressed into place, they were made from 1.6mm welding rods. and the pins in the middle were a sliding fit in the paddle wheel centres.

the paddles were just aligned by eye and were "glued" in place with styrene solvent

I decided that I would try 15mm wide paddle wheels to begin with and have made then with 8 and 12 paddles. the one I have played with so far is the black one and thats 10mm wide. Im not wanting to go too wide with them as they may end up looking like they belong to a paddle tug rather than a pleasure steamer.

now I can have a play and do some testing to see how it performs, and the advantage of small models is that you can do this in a bath








Offline optima21

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Re: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2021, 05:55:29 AM »
I had a play with it again and directional stability seems to be an issue, when I first ran it, the weight weight was on top of the hull, so was listing from side to side and the depth of the paddle in the water seemed to make it turn from one side to the other rather than going in a straight line. I also think 150 rpm motors may be fast enough and reducing the speed of the motors through the transmitter wont be as good as using slower motors and using the full stick travel. I also do think that 8 or 12 paddle wheels make much difference at this size, and that could also be because of the inconsistent performance of matching the speed of the motors.

I also tried it with 50 grams of ballast stuck to the bottom and that seemed to stop the listing from side to side, but directional stability.

so my next plan is to make a styrene hull with a shallow V below the waterline hopefully that will help, and this will be my second scratch built hull, and my first one was in steel and was 46cm long, this was done so I can test a steam engine when I get round to designing and building it



Offline optima21

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Re: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2021, 01:32:27 AM »
Ive started on a styrene hull, but progress is a bit slow, with the main structure of the hull being made from 1.0mm styrene with a shallow v at the bottom of the hull to help with stability. Im trying to keep the weight down of the hull and am hoping for a weight of 100-120 grams with paddles, motors and radio gear, which will also alow me to add some ballast to the bottom of the hull to help with stability, but only time will tell as Im making this up as I go along. Im thinking of building from the deck down rather than the keel up as its a nice flat surface. I'll cut the keel after I've finished the hull, it'll be too deep but I can clamp on to it if necessary. where the keel piece joins the deck along its length there are 1mm pins on each side if it to keep the alignment correct. due to the thinness of the styrene sheet, steel and rare earth magnets are good for clamping. there will be a small mast on this model, so I ended up making that section of the framework wider to provide additional support. and here are a few pics of the construction so far


Offline Walter Snowdon

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Re: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2021, 07:30:09 PM »
Hello optima. you are doing well!. A few years ago the now defunct Marine modelling published a book entitled "model ships (or boats) in styrine". . The authors name was Webb. It was full of information with a feature article on building a nice model of PS Princess Elizabeth with loads of very practical information including building a set of feathering wheels. I am sorry I no longer have my copy otherwise you could have had it!. Worth searching for.Our good late friend Hans Freund made me two sets of Routed) wheel frames in styrine    suitable for a paddler under 36 inches. If you look at the site photo gallery PADDLER DAYS you will find a very good picture of them on his Edwarian paddle steramer sitting on his model case marked PADDLEDUCKS ON TOUR. My model stuff is in lockdown in our clubhouse. When I have access I will send you a set.  Regards Walter.
Blessed are the "cracked" -for they let in the light for the rest of us.

Offline optima21

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Re: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2021, 07:34:51 AM »
Hi Walter,

thanks for your encouragement, and I've got that book and as you say its a good introduction to styrene modeling, with the advantage that styrene is much lighter than metal, and as boat models get smaller weight is much more of an issue. I do like the look of the edwardian steamer you're talking about and definately be influencing how mine will look...... thats if I get a hull that goes in the direction I point it.  The paddle wheels I'll be using will be less than 50mm diameter, and having seen discussions about feathered vs non feathered paddles on here, I think for me using solid paddles may be the better bet  as the advantage of feathered paddles may not be worth it due to the additional complexity of the making of them, but there are some knowledgeable gents on here that can point me in the right direction.

I dont know if I said it before, but the framework for the hull is  being made from 1.0mm styrene sheet and the plating of the outside of hull will be 0.75mm styrene.

and here's my method of making the frames

1) use sticky labels on the styrene to draw the parts you're making on, unless its very simple as pencil rubs off styrene too easily
2) cut the slots for locating in the transverse frames onto the keel. drill a 1.0mm hole and cut the sides of the slot a bit narrow and then open the slot out to be a sliding fit on the keel. as the slot is thinner than a file, I opted for using a large diamond coated wheel for use in a dremel.
3) fit the frame to the keel frame and cut the sides of the transverse frame to the width of the deck
4) draw the inside of the transverse frame so that can be cut out to reduce weight.
5) drill corner holes on the inside of the transverse frame
6) join the holes by cuttting with a hooked blade. its more accurate than my use of a piercing saw, but if I was using thicker styrene or doing curves I'd use a saw.
7) file the edges of the hole to the drawn lines, when I use this vice and sit down to do the filing, the part Im filing is at roughly eye level to easier to see what Im doing

the a finished transverse frame

also shown is how the profile of the hull will change and the deadrise angle will increase to the bow.

hopefully that makes sense, Im not too technical on the parts of a boat yet, but well see how it works sooner or later.




Offline optima21

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Re: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2021, 06:19:45 AM »
the frames are now finished, no.1  is the bow end, and glued in place with styrene cement, the frames will be a bit wobbly until the sides are glued in place, so some 1.5mm dia styrene has been superglued in place to support the frames and stop them flexing when the hull sides are glued on. hopefully I can remove them when the hull sides have been glued in place.

Offline DamienG

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Re: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2021, 10:49:09 AM »
 :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

Offline optima21

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Re: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2021, 10:35:15 AM »
finally got round to making it something that looked more like a hull today, rather from working from the keel up, I decided to work from the deck down. As Im having a flat deck that was a nice surface to be working from. The first thing I did was to make an mdf spacer that could also be use to clamp to the deck to stop it flexing. I also used some metal blocks to place the deck sides the right height above the deck, the flat parts of the hull sides were then glued in place. at the stern, the transom was held in place with a small elastic band taped in place. the top of the hull sides were then drawn in place. then a couple of pics showing the hull sides in place. Next is half of a hull bottom being held in place with elastic bands. then the stern part of the hull was glued in place. once the outside of the hull was done I decided to box in where the motors to power the paddles will go as the sides are 0.75mm thick so can flex. shown is a before and after photo. next there are 3 pics of the hull before final sanding of the edges. and finally the hull on the scales, I was hoping I could make it and weigh less than 60 grams, but this hull weighs 50 grams which is less than half the weight of the wooden one. should be able to test this hull next week and hopefully, it'll perform better than the wooden one I started with

Offline optima21

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Re: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2021, 06:22:52 PM »
Ive now made a couple of temporary paddle covers so In could try the hull out and see how it performs. As you can see there isnt too much space around the motors, but they fit so thats plenty of space. where the motors are screwed to the hull its still a bit flexible so I'll probably glue a 0.5mm stainless steel plate on the outside of the hull to strengthen that up.

The hull, radio gear and paddles weighs less than 100 grams, but I was using 10 pounds of ballast in it......well thats 10 1 coins or 88 grams, so will allow me not to worry too much about the weight of the superstructure.

as for performance its goes in a straight line now but turning is very slow, so the V hull helps with the directional stability. maybe I didnt need as much deadrise and would have been better off using a 10 degree angle rather than a 17 degree angle. I may remove the keel at a later date though, but I try it out on a pond before I make a final decision.

next I'll be making some paddles, Ive got 3 sets so far to play with,
1) 8 paddles 10mm wide
2) 12 paddles 15mm wide
3) 8 paddles 15mm wide
and there 15mm wide paddles work better that the 10mm wide paddles but there doesnt seem to be much difference with between the 15mm paddles so looks like I'll be going for wheels with 8 paddles 15mm wide and will be going for fixed paddles rather than feathered paddles.


Offline Walter Snowdon

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Re: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2021, 10:19:18 PM »
Hi Optima. Its looking very neat and practical. I have found over the years on small paddlers that the water carried up on the blades can "stick" in the top of the boxes causing a list. I have got round this on three   old edwardian paddler kits I have built that a couple of small holes drilled in the top of the paddle box allows the air to suck into paddle box top which causes the water to unstick and aerates the paddle box. This can be disguised with a grating or walkway.  The PBM Edwardian  paddlers were terrible for leaning into a turn and the water being unable to drain down. The breather holes soon fixed it! Incidentaly if you compare the PBM kit with the hobbies paddler kit You will soon notice that the hobbies kit is identical but shortened! The hobbies kit illistration even uses bits off the edwardian paddler to enhance its looks. The hobbies kit even uses PBM plastic paddle wheels in the illustrations. I got the last few paddle wheels from Patrick and Blunt when they ceased production! Regards, Walter.
Blessed are the "cracked" -for they let in the light for the rest of us.

Offline optima21

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Re: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2021, 07:56:43 AM »
Hi Walter, thanks for you advice, and yeah water in paddles isn't an issue in static models. Im thinking of having a walkway above the paddles so I'll looking at having the paddle boxes venting from the top. and this is all a steep learning curve for me. I also suspect that having open sided paddle boxes that I've been using so far wont show up this issue.

after seeing the quality of others recent pictures of making paddle wheels recently, its my turn now, and I'll be making mine from styrene sheet. I did start to file them but wasnt happy with the standard of finish so thought Id mill them using a rotary table . Ive done this before on small steam engine flywheels and a good read if you want to try this is this link

https://rick.sparber.org/FWp.pdf

as Im using straight spokes my calculations are much easier and the paddle wheel sides are made from 1.0mm thick styrene and its the first time that Ive milled styrene and wasnt sure how it would work. the milling was done with a 2mm 4 flute carbide cutter with centre cutting flutes at about 1200 rpm (I also drilled the holes at this speed too). I wasnt too sure what speed to use but thought it best to go on the slow side as the styrene will melt if heated up, so sharp cutters are also required.

so first I drew out half the wheel and the dimensions are in mm not inches :D

and from that I worked out where the holes needed to be drilled and the angular dimensions are in degrees and minutes (as my rotary table has 10 minute divisions on it)

and the slots, both radial and linear. All of the slots were milled using conventional milling rather than climb millling, which is why the radial slots go in opposite directions and you also need to account for backlash in the rotary table, in my case this in 20'. the straight milling was using using a digital readout so was taken as read (literally).

I used 1mm thick styrene sheet screws to a piece of MDF as a backing. the screw head was roughly centred as the centre hole will be enlarged and drilled as the final part of this. the 4 corners were clamped in place, for this I used repair washers on top on hexagonal studding connectors. not much clamping force is required and it worked well and gave decent visibility

and then drilling 56 holes in the corner of the slots

and draw roughly where the slots will go

I decided to cut the curved slots first, roughly cut then 0.20mm underside, by overlapping plunge cuts, having the corner holes cut you know where to stop and start cutting. this was also done with the straight slots

and then the final cut was done taken in a single pass, it does look like a rough finish, but its not.

the centre hole was then drilled after first enlarging the original hole with a end mill, so the final drilling would be accuratly centred.

and then clean up by removing the edge with a blunt scalpel blade

and 4  sides of  paddle wheels

Offline DamienG

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Re: Small Edwardian Paddle Steamer
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2021, 08:24:21 AM »
 :beer :bravo :beer :bravo

 

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