Freshwater

[mjt60a]

....I will need to fibreglass the inside of that area the same as the outer hull to protect the wood before it can be flooded....

I've done that now so, if it isn't raining (and I can find a way to inflate the outdoor test tank) floatation/ballast (and maybe drive system) test tomorrow!!!

[Eddy Matthews]

I can't wait to hear how the tests go Mick - I'm really looking forward to that stage with the Suter, hopefully it won't be too much longer now.

[mjt60a]

The test went superbly! Needs quite a lot of ballast (VERY difficult to lift, had to remove it all before lifting out of the water..) but seems very stable once at the correct waterline. The promenade deck/aft saloon roof and cowl vents are not yet attached (stuck on with blu-tack), window frames (still !) not yet completed and the masts, railings and various deck furnishings (seats, lifeboats & davits etc) still to be made and fitted but I've added some pictures to the gallery  
 http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=585

[Eddy Matthews]

It's looking really good Mick - How big is the model, it looks a fair size in those photos.

[mjt60a]

It's 55 inches long, 9 inch beam and 15 inches across the sponsons (1/32 scale BUT - as I have no data on the real Freshwater/Swannage Queen I used photos to work it out 'proportionally' using the height of people on board as a starting point and taking everything from there...ie. funnel appears about 4.5 to 5 'men' tall, promenade deck as long as about six funnel heights etc. Not at all accurate but I don't intend to enter any exact scale competitions, just make something recognisable - and pleasing to me  

[mjt60a]

Quick update; because of the weight of ballast required I'm constructing GRP water tanks between some of the frames in the hull. Once they're set I'll try filling them with water (to just below the waterline) and see if that'll work instead of using metal. If so I should be able to add a 'lid' and vent pipe (either to a cowl vent on deck or out through the side just above water) so they can't overfill, and to prevent the water moving around inside (they should fill to the top and part way up the vent) they can then fill up automatically if I have a couple of holes in the bottom of each compartment, lined with brass tube. This probably won't be as 'stable' as with metal (as discussed before) but I really need to reduce the weight... :?

[mjt60a]

I successfully formed two ballast tanks in the bow section but after testing I found they don't produce enough weight to fill them fully. I could try making two more...or use some lead, haven't quite decided which yet. I'll also need to make two more tanks just behind the 'engine room', one either side with the second battery between (there's a 12volt battery at each end of the motor compartment, the idea being to power the motors from one and lighting from the other - with the option of switching the motors to the second battery if the first runs down)
Before I can fit the decks (permanently) in place, I'll need to figure out how to attach the masts, which are to be removeable, so I've just started making those now. The foremast will have a mastlight and the mainmast a mastlight and the reciever aerial inside (I'm using a length of carphone antenna which has a copper core in a glassfibre or carbon fibre tapered rod) so electrical connections are needed at the base of each mast. I'm trying a headphone plug and socket, plug on the end of the mast and the socket set into the deck, but it's not exactly that simple....more on that if it works...
I've almost finished the (pesky) aft saloon window frames and must go now back to that as it's holding up the entire build!
Must finish the ship ASAP to take advantage of this 'free time' (aka unemployment) I find myself with - especially since I seem to have been promoted to captain  

[Eddy Matthews]

Good to hear your making progress on the Freshwater Mick.

Of course it's the old problem with ballast tanks, you have to fill them with a considerable volume of water to get the same effect as a relatively small amount of lead. But with the plus side of a much lighter boat for transportation.

Keep us posted, I've been following this build with considerable interest.

[Walter Snowdon]

HHi Mick, Heres a thought on filling and emptying your ballast tanks. Go to your local car scrap yard and get some old wingscreen washer pumps, Fit the tubing to your tanks and use them to fill your water ballast. reverse the polarity and hey presto you pump them out again! Filling them by hand will soon waterlog your hull with shaky-hand spillage. This method works well and has no mess. Also , why built in tanks? have a look at the bladder type polythene water bags that walkers  fit intheir rucksacks, they inflate and deflate when filled with water and can be pushed into awkward spaces. The danger with fixed tanks is that if they are not completely full, the water inside agravates any rolling on the model as it sloshes from side to side. (An old friend lost a 50 inch coaster that way, it turned turtle after the roll got more and more pronounced to th point that it rolled keel up!) Dont want to alarm you!) Wishing you every success. Walter.

[mjt60a]

I had thought of using some type of water pump (like on model u-boats) but then, if it fails, it'd be sealed inside the hull  :x
The idea is to have permanently open holes in the bottom of the hull, an air pipe to somewhere above the waterline (to a vent on deck or an outlet in the side - if the ship has one in a convenient place) and a sealed lid on top of the tank below the waterline then when placed in the water, they should fill completely (and partway up the air outlet) in a few minutes. Drawbacks of this method are that they'll take a few minutes to empty too so the model will be very heavy when first removed from the water! Also, the water will drain out onto the ground when the model is placed on it's stand (unless suspended over the lake until empty - argh, my back!  :?  ) so some type of tray and drainpipe attached to the stand may be in order. The stand can be placed on the bank and the ship quickly lifted on.
This is of course, all theoretical but since the first two tanks do in fact work, and it'd be just as heavy with lead ballast.....and I should be able to overcome the drainage/stand issue.....I think I'll go ahead and make the rest of the tanks. It's just a matter of fibreglassing the inside of the hull (in compartments without any electrics), adding a shelf below the waterline and testing in water again to ensure the correct level is reached 'on the outside' with water in the tanks at a lower level. If it works, I can drill the holes in the bottom and line them with brass tube (sealed to the outer and inner 'skins' of f/g tissue and resin with more resin or araldite) make the lids from styrene sheet, fit the air outlets and seal them in place.
If it doesn't work (ie. they're not heavy enough when filled below the waterline) I can forget the whole thing and just put lead ballast in them.

Incidentally...when testing the two without the lids I noticed something unexpected...If the hull is 'rocked', the water in the tanks swills from side to side at a different rate to the hull - and it settles again faster than it did with the temporary 'full milk containers' (so the water can't move) during earlier tests... I'm sure that with enough tanks half-to-three-quarters full, it would cause a capsize but maybe just a small tank, partly filled, could be used as a stabiliser.............just a thought, I'm not going to do it on this model but an interesting discovery!

[PJ]

Mick:

I met some guys in England three years ago and we discussed the whole issue of ballasting large models. They laughed when I told them of model tugs over here with 50 lbs of removable lead ballast.  Seems they have a valve which is opened to allow water into the ballast tanks and they simply void them with pumps.  These are 12V systems of large model tugs.

PJ
Victoria, BC Canada

[derekwarner_decoy]

HI PD's - Mick in real life they use the continual cross transfer of water ballast [port to stdb & reverse etc] to stabilise certain types of vessels - typically RoRo or box boat vessels which have very high windage profiles

I have seen video footage of the BHP Iron Monarch ploughing through rolling seas en-route to Whyalla with the vessel [gas turbineing] along with no percieved roll

This continual ballast trimming is all computer controlled & this is great as long as the computer dosn't crash - have not seen but heard that on one occasion the ballast computer system was dead & the Monarch rolled around like a cork

Moral of the story is that you have already picked up this semi cancellation effect of timing in the movement of the smaller volumes of ballast water compared to the source etc

So I suppose you could consider free entry ballasting combined with a pump to press up the tanks - I mean the point is to get the vessel lower in the water, not to correct huge swelll or roll influences that the model would be subjected to -

I am sure those little 12V MFA style gear pumps deliver approx one litre per minute so one would have great potential - just got to figure out how to close the free ballasting vents so you could also de-ballast - regards Derek

[mjt60a]

Have finally finished the window frames on the aft saloon, there's only twelve in all but it's the sticking tiny bits of wood together with miniature tweezers from a swiss army knife - again and again for each one..... If I have to do this again on another model I'll find an easier way.....
almost finished the foremast too, and the idea of having removeable masts using a miniature jack plug on the base to plug into a socket in a hole in the deck works very well - but my site is down so no pictures just yet.
Also I've altered and repainted a couple more 'crew figures', but many passengers to be painted so for now I'll just make the ones that are going inside the aft saloon as that won't be accessible once the deck is in place.
The next 'nightmare' is going to be the chairs, lat's see..... 7 tables, 6 chairs around four of them, 4 chairs around the other three....    36 chairs.....  and the snack bar......  :?

[PJ]

The next 'nightmare' is going to be the chairs, lat's see..... 7 tables, 6 chairs around four of them, 4 chairs around the other three....    36 chairs.....  and the snack bar......  :?

Mick..the answer to your nightmare is called RESIN CASTING!

Best regards

PJ
Victoria, BC, Canada

[mjt60a]

Now there's an idea.....I'll have to see if I can get some of the casting resin mentioned in 'Paddlewheel Construction'..........  That would've made the window frames much easier too (as I'd only have to make one!)