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Author Topic: smoke generation in a live steam system  (Read 6042 times)

Offline apointofview

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smoke generation in a live steam system
« on: September 17, 2015, 01:37:02 AM »
My question is how can I make smoke for the funnel of my sternwheeler.  The boiler is propane fired and the exhaust from that goes up and out the smoke stack.  The steam exhaust from the engines is routed to two pipes, one for each engine, that exit at the rear of the boat like the full scale boat it is modeled after.

The water only systems that are sold are neat, but with the high temps in the stack I'll bet the water vapor will be dried up long before it makes it out of the stack.

The heated coil systems use oil, and that might hold up in the hot gases flow if I mix them together.

Can I use the heat of the boiler ( which is alot ) to generate the smoke in some way ?

What have you guys used to get a nice smoke look with live steam.

Pete 

Offline Barry

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Re: smoke generation in a live steam system
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2015, 06:54:25 PM »
On some I/C powered model airplanes they pump oil in to the exhaust/muffler where it hot enough to 'smoke'
Perhaps you could do something simular. I'd imagine there'd be info on some of the model plane sites.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__35849__TX_Controlled_Smoke_Pump_for_Gas_Models.html

Offline apointofview

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Re: smoke generation in a live steam system
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2015, 05:26:07 AM »
looks like some experimenting will be in order.  I dont want to create an oil sheen on the water, that might not be well received.  Still a ways off to try, I am just looking for ideas at this point.  Do the vapor types with the hot coil produce any residual residue ?
Pete

Offline R.G.Y.

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Re: smoke generation in a live steam system
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2015, 07:30:52 AM »
The first boiler I made for the Duke of Devonshire, is a water tube boiler. (On longer in the boat) The oil separator is set down in the top of the casing. So the bottom of the separator is heated by the gas burner. It did make smoke, it can be seen in the Duke build. I have now fitted a fire tube boiler, a more difficult problem, as it would have to be fitted in the flue.  Oil must not enter the boiler.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 07:33:15 AM by R.G.Y. »
G.Y.

Offline derekwarner_decoy

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Re: smoke generation in a live steam system
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2015, 07:59:14 AM »
One of our Illawarra Live Steamers club members has built a 5" gauge D55 Class steam engine and just like the original design is oil fired :whistle...it can be slow to get the oil to ignition temperature...and plenty of petrochemical mist is internally sprayed within the boiler firebox prior to actual combustion :ranting.......

I must admit that I prefer the smell of burning coal over the cocktail of light oil and kerosene :nono....burning Derek
_____________________________________________________

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CBwQFjAAahUKEwjygvS9x4HIAhWFHpQKHbSqANU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FNew_South_Wales_D55_class_locomotive&usg=AFQjCNFbFu3ySNBgdfZBmGxbZY8Ty3lHpw
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From another thread yesterday......

Morning Pete.....when you get time, could you please tell us more about the gas shut off valve & the means of actuating it...

Is it a 90 degree steam valve?
How do you achieve positive shut off?
Are you using a spring controlled servo saver?

With respect to your question on smoke from the stack, oil spray apart from being messy, has the potential to leave a carbon build up on the cross tubes...& this in time becomes an insulator & retards heat transfer from the gas flame

Having said this, all of our club members with 5" gauge steam engines use a coal dust type compressed material termed as char....it also has a small % of clay dust in the mix as a binder.....and we see the cross tubes in the fire box caked with a soot build up however this does not appear to have any serious consequences with heating

So, I have a collection of 1:20 scale timber splits representing boiler feed which is stored on deck, however also have a collection of non split logs which will trial poking 1 or 2 down the chimney ...these will lodge on the cross tubes in the exhaust gas path & hopefully will smoke until they are consumed as or to ash....the logs will actually sit below the height of the condenser steam outlet which is higher up in the chimney stack.....my relief valve discharge tube is also external to the chimney ....so there is little chance if any of the log being subjected to wet soggy steam........

I hope to do a trial steam up this weekend, in preparation for one of our Club boiler inspectors to recertify my boiler in accordance with the Australian Model Boiler code.... Derek
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 08:01:06 AM by derekwarner_decoy »
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

Offline andy

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Re: smoke generation in a live steam system
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2015, 05:57:25 PM »
I already thought about this problem as well for my two model steamers. Both have bolilers with fire tubings and a reverse box inside. Fired with gas burners for a soldering system. There is enough heat on the end of the funnel, so I planned to make a little tubing system including a mini tank and fit it in the funnel. then to be filled with steam oil from a model railway.
But I did not yet realise, because the steam will be oily and bring oily fog on my models.
So they will remain wothout steam.. which would be ok as well. Both have their exhaust hole on their side in the hull, and the original ships hat big black clouds coming out of the funnel. How to imitate this? Burning plastics in the boiler?

Andy
http://picasaweb.google.com/a.heene/ModellRaddampferDIESSEN
http://picasaweb.google.com/a.heene/ModellDampferSCHONDORF02

Offline apointofview

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Re: smoke generation in a live steam system
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2015, 11:29:03 PM »
I would really like to hear how wood down the stack works out.

As for the gas shutoff I havent had a chance to get a few pictures to show what I did to give you guys a good reply.  But I just used a DuBro smoke shutoff valve.
http://shop.dubro.com/p/super-smoker-valve-qty-pkg-1
The propane feed line to the burner is silicon fuel tubing from the regulator to the burner adjusting valves.  I just put the dubro valve inline and it just pinches the tubing and stops the flow of gas with little effort.
Pete

Ill still work on getting pics

Offline Mechanicboy

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Re: smoke generation in a live steam system
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2016, 06:11:37 AM »
Hi, i know the thread is old, but it is not to late to tell you.. :)

I has Saito boiler with smoke generator, and i am showing the drawings how it works..

Offline derekwarner_decoy

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Re: smoke generation in a live steam system
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2016, 08:53:20 AM »
Hullo Mechanicboy........I understand your drawing and this is an interesting thought  :whistle

One issue I see with your setup is that the reservoir for the oil is now a pressurised  vessel [being subjected to boiler pressure] and so becomes another vessel that requires test & certification by the inspectors

regards Derek :beer
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 08:06:37 PM by derekwarner_decoy »
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

Offline Mechanicboy

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Re: smoke generation in a live steam system
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2016, 07:39:18 AM »
Hello Derek..

Oil reservoir as a pressure tank is not big as a steam boiler. There is no risk that it will explode if it is selected copper tube 30 mm in diameter with a wall thickness of 1 mm will withstand up to 14.6 kg / cm2 while the boiler is not greater pressures up to 6 kg / cm2 under working pressure for model steam engines. Length of oil reservoir can be short or large if you need small or large amount of oil, length is not critical under steam pressure. End wall thickness I would choose 2 mm since we need a place to mount the regulator valve and filling plug + fitting for steam pipe and larger bottom plate to fasten on model boat or baseplate.

The oil reservoir must be silver soldered.

:)

 

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