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Author Topic: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )  (Read 57182 times)

Offline apointofview

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2015, 12:31:26 AM »
I have made some progress, like I said figuring out where to stuff everything has been the time consuming part. I went with two water tanks made out of 2" pvc pipe sharing a common manifold from which the feed water pump will tap for clean water. Each tank has a vent that also serves as a place to refill. You can see the vents they are the 90 degree elbows on each side of the hull. Those elbows will not be glued, so I can easily remove them to service the water tanks. The condensation and cylinder drains go to another pvc tank, one under each engine. I know pvc isnt rated for steam temperatures, but this will be condensate and oil that has been through the engine and expanded and cooled some. The volume of waste water is also fairly low so I am hoping the pvc temps will stay below the melting point. If not then everything is accessable and replaceable so I will build something out of more expensive metal. Wont hurt to try. The Yellow hose is engine exhaust drain. The exhaust pipes will rise straight up from the engines to the top of the superstructure. My test running showed me that the low exhaust flow from the engines didnt have enough push to get condensing water straight up and out of the pipe without reving up the engines. In order to fix that problem I added a drain pipe to the exhaust pipe and that water will fall into the condensate tank using the yellow ( gotta find another color ) hose. Right now its latex but that is rated at a lower temp too, so I plan on finding some silicone hose the correct size. All that heat and vapor from the condensate tank will exit out each side of the hull just forward of the paddle. There is a picture of that pipe also. The capped 1/2 inch pipe just in front of the engine is the access point for sucking out the water and oil that will end up in the condensate tank.
More deck work to go, I have a bunch of trimming to do on what is there already. I think a test float with plastic like I did before will be in order at that point, just to make sure the paddle floats are going to fully submerge, and see how much freeboard I have to work with.

Pete

Offline derekwarner_decoy

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2015, 08:05:29 AM »
Hi PD's........& all looking good Pete  :hammer

1. with respect to the condensate temperatures ....the following is taken from OZ Google......but American PVC would be about the same  :whistle ...remember if condensate is still at a temperature that appears as steam  :ranting......it will be hotter than 60 degrees C


Temperature limitations for PVC-U DWV pipe
 
......... They are more than capable of handling normal high and low temperature discharges in these applications. There are however, some applications in which the temperature limitations need to be assessed more thoroughly.

Elevated Temperatures

The recommended maximum continuous operational temperature for UPVC pipes is 60įC. This limitation refers to the complete pipe wall being at 60įC and would apply for continuous flow of a fluid at 60įC.


2. yes a displacement test [with the simulated boiler] would be a good idea  :shhh

3. is than a boiler hand pump shown in image 1532 below?...and can it be handle operated or linkage rod driven from an engine eccentric?

Keep up the good work........Derek  :beer
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 08:11:13 AM by derekwarner_decoy »
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

Offline apointofview

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2015, 11:54:10 PM »
Hi Derek,

I am gonna try the pvc and see what happens.  That quote you sent actually encouraged me to think it might work, because it indicates that the 60 degrees C limit is when the entire interior wall is exposed to those temps.  Mine will just be small dribbles.  Hopefully the mass of the pipe will help keep the pipe from distorting.  Wont hurt to try.

As to the pump, yep its a dual purpose pump.  There are two pistons inside it one is connected to the hand lever, the other to an eccentric on the paddle shaft.  The two pistons share the intake and output check valves.  I have an adjustable pivot point on the eccentric pushrod that allows me to adjust the stroke of the engine driven side of the pump to get the pump output close to the water consumption. It works pretty good but I may need to add a second o-ring to keep the piston from rubbing the sides of the bore.

Pete

Offline apointofview

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2015, 01:00:54 AM »
Well the test float didnít go well.  It didnít sink, but it already sits at the planned water level, and there is a lot of structure to go let alone more mechanical and radio gear etc.  The results made for a bad day.  My solution is going to have to be to increase the length of the hull.  I donít want to go thru the work of adding depth, so length should be easier and improve the look of the hull. It was a little stubby looking.  I will have to split the hull into 2 sections for transporting.  I donít want to have to use my truck bed and a hoist to get this boat to the pond.  I will bring the length from 52" to 64" which will make 2 32" sections.  The boiler, feed water and fuel supply will be in the fwd section and the engines and their supporting gear in the aft. The radio gear will be split up. That will move the boiler forward which should help the balance of the hull and hopefully eliminate 5 pounds of useless ballast that I have to put in the current hull's bow.  I will have to make a steam connection and a few electrical disconnects to split the two sections.  I hope the superstructure can remain one piece

This boat design thing is not easy.  I guess this is where planning ahead would have been helpful !! ;D

Pictures to follow soon

Pete

Offline DamienG

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2015, 02:27:01 PM »
Increasing the beam will help and keep her looking balanced Pete.
She'll look fine in the end.
Damien.

Offline apointofview

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2015, 07:31:06 AM »
Thanks for the encouragement Damien !

Here are a few pics as promised

The hull is sitting on my model airplane wing jigs to keep everything flat.  It will be two independent hulls that will join to float the main reason for that it for transportation.  I haven't quite figured out how I will secure them to each other.  I don't want fasteners below the waterline.  Maybe some kind of clamping system ?


Pete

Offline DamienG

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2015, 09:14:18 AM »
 :terrific :bravo :bravo

Offline Hankwilliams

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2015, 07:06:56 PM »
The increased lenght of the hull will not only solve the problem with the draught, also the appearance is much better.

May be interesting, I will add pictures of my steam driven sternwheelers, the "Zambesi" (Zulu) and the Congo steamer "Ville des Bruges".

Thomas

Offline derekwarner_decoy

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2015, 08:08:45 PM »
Evening Hank and Pete  :gathering ....

I again have reservations of an increase in vessel length over an increase in draft  :hammer.......

However if you need more deck ballast just call

These are 1:20 scale boiler feed logs cut on a 1:20 scale day in the Australian hardwood forests just west of 1:20 of the western side of the Murray river... :sorry

Derek :beer
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

Offline chewbacca

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2015, 08:40:53 PM »
bonjour
Very beautiful boat ,  :clap

Offline apointofview

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2015, 06:50:05 AM »
Wow all those boats look fantastic ! 

Thomas - You are right the length did make the boat look better ( I didn't expect that when I started cutting )
                Do you have more pictures of your engines ? I would love to see more detail !!

Derek - since I really know nothing about boat design, why would an increase in draft be preferable to an increase in length ?  I was under the impression that I wanted to keep the bottom of the paddle close to the bottom of the hull.  If I increased the draft the paddle would be a good bit higher than the bottom of the boat.   I am already committed to the latter, but I would like to learn.

Pete

Offline Hankwilliams

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2015, 08:50:26 PM »
Hi Pete,

here some detail pictures of "Ville des Bruges" lenght 142 cm, and "Zambezi" (Zulu plan) lenght 133 cm. Scale of both models is 1 : 24.

For "Zambezi" I used the simple oscillating engine of the "Mark Twain" Kit in the 1990ties, bore is 12 mm, stroke 60mm.
For "Ville des Bruges" a slightly modified Regner 12/36 was the right choice.

Your engine seems very interesting, it looks like the valve geared engines of the American riverboats, isn`t it?

Thomas

Offline derekwarner_decoy

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2015, 07:15:52 AM »
Congratulation......both magnificent steam builds Thomas........

1. do you experience a high condensate level due to the HP line length?
2. so with the Zambezi at 60 mm stroke means the eccentric on the paddle wheel is 30 mm...so what range of paddle shaft rpm can you achieve?
3. with such a stroke and being an oscilator, how are the valve faces held steam tight considering the axis point is approx. 30 mm away?

I was not aware that Regner manufactured cylinder sets of 36 stroke.........would love to see a video of the engines running.... Derek  :beer

PS...just checked the Regner catalogue.......all I find is 12 x 17 or 20...and 14 x 17 or 20 cylinder & rod sets?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 08:04:48 AM by derekwarner_decoy »
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

Offline apointofview

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2015, 10:04:57 AM »
Thanks Thomas !
Those engines look great.  All the details of you boats are really nice right down to the tools !!!!
I too would love to see a video the engines running.
I really doubt I will get even close to the scale look you have achieved
Thanks again for sharing those its inspiring
Pete

Offline derekwarner_decoy

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Re: Steam powered sternwheeler ( first boat build ever )
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2015, 11:06:48 AM »
Pete......just back on the draft issue.......one basic point to remember is the need for approx. 3 blades to be immersed at all times  :hammer...it would be worth marking this new imaginary water line on the hull to give you an idea of what you are chasing.....[open the image below]

I do see your dilemma with the existing paddle axis height ....so the additional mid ship section will be pretty easy to calculate the additional buoyancy it will provide

Another concept to consider is that the boiler is always approx. 75% full....and the steam generated is from the water in the makeup water tank ...so if you were to position the makeup water tank midships [of balance], so as this water is consumed the vessel will rise with a fair degree of uniformity between the bow & the stern

On a darker note...we remember what happened when the American Congress recommended building two rocket section in two different locations......& the $20 o-ring that failed......... :sorry

I would have grave reservation  :c002 in exposing all of those individual steam engine assembly components in any form of demountable hull....... Derek
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 11:11:09 AM by derekwarner_decoy »
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

 

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