Engel Chaperon

[ir3]

Hi PD'ers,

It has been a long time and it's time to jump back in. The Chaperon by Engel is real and as it turns out, it appears to be a very nice kit. Responding to Derek from an early November 2011 post on the DQ build, do build another paddler. Well I bit the bullet and purchased the Chaperon.

I must say, from a preliminary look at the contents, it is very nicely kitted. The parts are crisp and the instructions are excellent. Hi supplies about 30 supplemental plan sheets to follow the assembly manual and so construction should move along quite nicely.

He powers the boat with a 540 type motor through a series of gears to get a reasonable paddle wheel torque. Of course, my first inclination is to put the TY-2DR in the hull. I think there will be plenty of room. It is a narrow boat but very long. He doesn't give any specs on the weight but I think the TY-2DR should do the job.

So it is here that I bow to the expertise on this forum to determine if the TY-2DR should have a direct connection to the Paddle Wheel as in the DQ or should there be some gear reduction. It could easily be done with pulleys and drive belts of the appropriate size.

Any suggestions prior to starting the model would help.

Thanks and glad to be back,

Iran

[derekwarner_decoy]

Welcome back ir3....we have just been here  &  & 

Why not post some images or sizing's for the Chaperon by Engel

From memory.......the Saito WEB page lists the Y2DR horizontal engine as suitable for hulls of 1000 mm to 1500 mm....our mate from Bucharest suggests that this engine should be direct drive 

I have added a 50 diameter fly wheel [from Winfried Niggle] to either shaft in the hope it will get to rotate one day

Keep us posted with text & images...............Derek

[ir3]

Hi PD'ers,

I unpacked the kit this morning and I must say it is a very nice package. The fittings are very well made and the hull, laid up fiberglass and gel coat, is excellent. It will be very easy to install the steam plant. The only negative I have so far is that the decks are adhesive packed and printed on a thin Mylar. This is not going to be a problem for me since this is strictly a fun boat and except for the steam plant installation, it will be built as is. Included will be a miniature CD player with a collection of steam boat songs.

The length of the hull in the water is about 1270mm and a width of about 250mm so the TY-2DR will power this model very nicely.

Derek, as usual, your work on the Y2DR is exemplory.

Until next time,

Iran

[derekwarner_decoy]

ir3....the Saito T2DR [vertical twin] is listed is listed as 6000 RPM no load...and torque of 1050gm@1cm......or 1.05kg@10mm

Naturally this halves with doubling of the moment.....eg., 0.525kg@20mm.......and 0.26kg@40mm...[the moment is 1/2 the diameter of the eccentric be it on the engine or the paddle wheel]

I note you say the manufacturer [Engel] uses a 540 type motor through a series of gears

What sort of output speed does this provide?........possibly you could compare the two to form an enlightened plan of to gear down the Saito ....or not ......Derek

[ir3]

Hi Derek, PD'ers,

The Speed 540 has a no load RPM of 5700. I need to take the gear box apart to determine the ratio. This, along with the eccentric on the wheel will give me an idea of the maximum Paddle Wheel RPM out of the water. I am interested in the gear ratio and the typical paddle wheel speed.

The displacement of the boat comes in at about 12Kg. I suppose that with the Steam Plant it may come out somewhat heavier. There will be a battery for the electronics including an amplifier that will provide a bit of Steam Calliope music. I do not remember the displacement of the DQ or the ratios of the Y2DR output shaft to the Paddle Wheel eccentric but the same ratios might do the job, otherwise I will have to do some gearing or pulleys and drive belts.

I wish I knew more.

But for now, back to construction. I will post some progress pics when I have something significant to show.

Until next time,

Iran

A bit more information. The gear box will provide a no load RPM of about 180 - 190 at a motor RPM of 5700. The ratio of the output shaft of the gear box to the paddle wheel is 1:1. I hope this helps.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's..... ....have had a PM asking for explanation......so just a simple 

From ir3's latest example.......I have assumed a wheel of say 110 mm diameter & an eccentric of say 80 mm diameter 

If Saito quote the torque of the T2DR engine as 1050gm/cm @ 2Bar....I have converted this to understandable units of

ie., 1/4 kg tub of butter being lifted from the 3.00 o'clock position on 40 mm from the axis point ...does this make sense? ........Derek 

[ir3]

Hi Derek, P'D'ers,

The mathematics is perfect .

With a 1:1 connection from the engine to the paddle wheel, it appears that at 1000 RPM for the Y2DR, the paddle wheel should turn about 30 RPM with no load. Being in the water, it looks like the Y2DR will move this model at a nice scale speed. I have no idea what paddle wheel speeds should be but I think this installation will work very nicely.

Started on the lower cabin construction and found an error so it is wait for a response from the vendor, again.

Until next time,

Iran

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's....ir3......I looked at the Engel site for this vessel & a few things appear a little concerning 

1. the vessel is listed as ~~~12kg, the hull is listed as 58 mm high
2. the hull [1292x292] is a floating block with a little pointy profile @ the bow
3. if we consider 1292x292x [25 for the draft] x 0.9 for the bow we get 8kg....& this would provide 33 mm freeboard
4. if we revised this to 1292x292x [30 for draft] x 0.9 for the bow we get ~~~10 kg...but this would only provide 28 mm freeboard

Mathematics can be tricky  ....but from this I see

5. 1292x292x[X] x 0.9 = 12 kg
6. solving for [X].......is _______12___________
                                     1292x292x0.9
Therefore X = 35 mm ......so the new freeboard is [58-35] ~~~23 mm
Is this your expectation?..........Derek

[ir3]

Hi PD's, Derek,

Good grief. No, but it stands to reason. River boats in general have a very limited free board, thus operating in rivers and back waters where turbulence is not an issue. So it looks like either a very smooth pond or swimming pool. In England and mainland Europe I would assume there are many model boat clubs and access to indoor ponds or pools is not a problem. In my area, there are no nearby organized model boat clubs and certainly no indoor ponds or pools. Running the model in a friends pool at party time will probably be the extent of running this model. Occasionally one of the hobby shows will have a pool setup and I could participate there.

Oh, and speaking of mathematics, running the paddle wheel at 1:1 from the Y2DR will spin the wheel right off the bearings.  The gear box provides a 32:1 reduction. I have no idea as to the best RPM range for the Y2DR. There are too many variables that are above my head. The amount of torque required to turn the wheel, the RPM to have the boat move close to scale, and the steam pressure to achieve it. On the surface, it appears that the Y2DR pressure could be kept quite low to get a nice scale speed and a good deal of steaming time.

Now it's back to building but with another glitch. Some slots in the main cabin formers are not positioned properly.

Until next time,

Iran

[the bombus]

Hi Iran,
With a price tag like she has there should be no errors .
If i would be a company producing models i would take some pride in delivering perfect products.
But hey that will be the reason why i'm not 
I sincerely hope you will have a pleasant build from now on .
good luck and greetings from The Bombus

[ir3]

Hi Pd'ers,

Well it's back to Algebra 1. I incorrectly measured the diameter of one of the gears . Engelr indicates that the paddle wheel should rotate at about 40 RPM at full speed. My new calculations show 46 RPM but that is partly due to needing better glasses and a more accurate ruler. So replacing the motor with the Y2DR will work out quite nicely.

Until next time,

Iran

[ir3]

Hi PD'ers,

Next problem. The aft slots need to be reworked. The pencil lines show the run of the deck. Unfortunately there is a shear at the bow. John Fryant indicates that the Chaperon has no shear. Since it is built into the hull, this will not change. Fortunately,  after correcting the slots at the aft end, the simulated paneling will cover up the incorrect part of the slot.

Now to get on with the building of this model.

Until next time,

Iran

[derekwarner_decoy]

ir3.......could be an illusion  .......but there appears to be an additional say 2:1 reduction between the drive shaft eccentric diameter & paddle shaft eccentric diameter? .... Derek

[ir3]

Hi Derek,

I also wondered about that but after checking the parts list, there are 4 eccentrics with the same part number so I have to assume the ratio is 1:1. In response to the PM, I will be keeping the steam pressure at the relief valve pressure. I have both the glass lubricator from Winfred, and I have the Mainsteam regulator that I set up for a T2DR project, I believe two items that you recommended in the past.

The slot correction on the cabin sides is complete and I just about have the cladding on the main cabin structure finished. I will post some pictures tomorrow.

Until next time,

Iran 

[ir3]

Hi PD'ers,

A bit more progress on the Chaperon. All of the horizontal wood cladding is in place and some dry fitting of some internal structures. The Paddle Wheel support assembly is glued up with the gear box just sitting in the space provided. The next issue for the gear box is pulling the gear off the motor shaft and replacing it with a shaft that goes through both vertical bearing walls so the Y2DR can be coupled. I will be passing on a note to Engel to supply new gear just in case.

Until next time,

Iran