Mississippi river boat

[Jaydee]

Hi.
I am building a 1.5m model of the Robt E Lee paddle steamer to plan from Loyalhanna Dockyard, I had to blow them up by 50% to get the size I wanted. I am well under way with the hull at the moment but now that I have the rough shape I am thinking of modifying the rudder section by putting 3 rudders on it instead of the one I am told that these boats do not turn very well, I was going to mount the extra rudders behind the paddle wheels but them decided to have them all at the back.  Not to scale but compromises have to be made sometimes.  The hull is made from Jelutong timber 2 slabs 50mm thick it started life at 13kg and after roughing out it is now down to under 6kg, on the drawings it was supposed to be 80mm thick and mine is 100mm to compensate for the heavy motor and boiler. I am going to install a Gem 2 cylinder horizontal engine with a 4” gas fired boiler mounted on a 1mm thick brass machine mount. I have not decided which way to go with the paddle wheels as yet homemade or bought  , Float a boat in Melbourne have a range of paddle wheels  but I also have an arrangement drawing for making feathered paddle wheels. I am posting some photos of the progress so far.
Any comments or advise would be greatly appreciated.

[kurlander]

I am building the Delta Queen river boat at 1.75 meters long and found out that when they moved it from San Francisco Bay, they had to put in an electric bow thruster because of all the curves in the rivers it traveled and the Mississippi River South of Cairo Illinois curves like a snake to New Orleans  and the channel changed with every winter thaw up north.

[kiwimodeller]

Look forward to watching your progress and to eventually seeing how the Gem performs. It certainly is a nice looking unit and it is good to see one going in to a paddler.

[Jaydee]

Hi guys
made a little progress over the weekend.  Finished roughing out the hull, inside and out I had already shaped the stern before deciding to install 2 extra rudders so there is more work to do back there.  I also trial fitted the engine components to make sure they were going to fit, they do still haven't decided on what sort of paddle wheels to fit yet but a decision will have to be made soon, also need to work out what rpm the motor will churn out and think about gearing and drive belts for it.
Photo 1 is the rough inside of hull.
   "     2 is outside stern.
   "     3 is outside Bow note Lower deck in background.
   "     4 is trial fit of engine.
   "     5 is engine components. 

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's........& a belated welcome Jaydee  ....I read your post on 04/01....but was in Adelaide.........

1. That Gem twin will be a beautiful but heavy weight unit
2. A 4" boiler will also be approx. 2.0 kg when filled?
3. I suspect you will have approx. 8 to 10 kg of boiler/engine/ancillaries'......

A few questions...... ......

4. Have you considered or calculated the total vessel displacement?
5. The Maccsteam boiler WEB site [in our links here] provides some useful steam volume calculations

Please continue with your build snaps ......they are viewed by many world wide members
Any questions.....just call ....a member will assist......
________________________________________________________________

I continue with my Saito Y2DR horizontal twin steam engine & vessel build.......Derek 

[bill stafford]

gday jaydee,
 build looks good .
i have seen some stern wheelers w 2/3 rudders behind the paddle wheel ,as well as large ones in front , i would be tempted to go w at least 2 behind p wheel , 3 in front .
 from what i read from others who know more than me , this set -up help steering heaps , i think john fryant has drawn it on some of hes plans ,as the wash from the stern wheeler has more effect on the rear rudders , going ahead
1 of the full size stern wheels now in USA ,has a thruster/rudder forward on the hull , to make it steer ,steam powered  main engines
food for thought !!
regards bill s

[Jaydee]

Hi PD's thanks for the comments and questions
I put the machine mount with all of the fittings (including the boiler full of water) on the scales tonight and they weigh in at 6 Kg I have to add plumbing and electronics to that figure yet. as yet I haven't worked out the displacement yet, and I have a good excuse for not doing it and that is that I am stupid and don't know how to do it. I JUST HOPE THE BLOODY THING FLOATS. I am still chipping and sanding away at the hull so it is still on a diet.
John

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's.........Jaydee....estimating a hulls displacement is no big deal..you mention a vessel length of 1.5M...width ? and draft ?

American stern wheelers were really just floating hollow shells with a curve at the bow & a reduced stern underwater depth for the inboard or monkey rudders

So my guestimation is based upon 1500 mm long x 200 mm wide x 25 mm of actual displacement [depth of hull in the water]
1500x200x25 = 15000000 cubic mm = 15 kg equivalent water displacement

To allow for the bow & stern [reduced areas & hence reduced displacement] possibly 1.75 kg total

So the guestimation is that the fully build vessel with all boiler gear will need to support 13.25 kg ...or displace 13.25 kg at 25 mm draft 

You could + or - your actual dimensions to provide a more actuate estimate.....
You could also divide the hull into 3 sections.....bow....middle &  stern.......then calculate out each section....let us know how you get on ........Derek 
 

[kurlander]

The Delta king and Queen has 4 rudders in front of the wheel and 2 behind.The Delta King didn't need one for the Sacramento River did not have that sharp curves but the Queen needed the bow thruster for the Mississippi River south of ST. Louis several times does a 360 degree turn and flows North, East, West and South to New Orleans.

[Harold H. Duncan]

Just as a comparison, the ps Manuwai, in New Zealand, when on the Wanganui River, had 3 rudders foreward of the stern paddlewheel, but when on the Waikato River, had 2 extra rudders fitted astern of the stern paddlewheel. Very different rivers required different control.
cheers
kiwi

[bill stafford]

if you muck up the model weight ,and i dont think you have ,as a last resort ,you can add foam to the bottom of the hull ,to make it float , iv seen it done on a aussie paddler -not very pretty , but no one can see it when the model is floating .
 just something to keep as a last resort , but the size of your model , should make this not a issue
I would like to see any info on the steam plant+rc controls ,as im talking of building a boiler this yr ,100mm diam. centre flue ,gas fired ,no model yet , likely to be a tug ,1100mm loa approx.
good luck bill s
ps FaBoat have a stern wheel kit too

[derekwarner_decoy]

Jaydee......belay my comments of monkey rudders  ...as I now see the  Robert E Lee was a side wheeler  with one very small conventional rudder

Having said this....the same images suggest she is much more of a floating block with a short rounded bow and very little fairing toward the stern which was my visualization

So from these images......if 1500x200x25 were in the ball park....I think the 13.xx kg displacement will be fairly close..........

One point for consideration......if you are building this as stand off scale....you could leave the lower deck to hull level walls open for viewing..... would be a pity to hide such a beautiful engine  & boiler......Derek

[Jaydee]

Hi PD's
Not much to up date at this stage I have been working at the hull, adding sections for 2 rudders instead of just the 1.  I have tried to get the rudder more into the slip stream from the paddles so that they work more efficiently
I did some more machining of the hull and will probably join it all together next weekend.  I started to cut out a set of paddle wheels last week just as a trial in 3mm ply but have now decided to make them out of plastic they are 180mm diameter, with 16 paddles each so there is a lot of work to be done.  I am also working on the lower deck so that I can attach it to the hull as soon as it is finished. I will give the hull a couple of coats of fiberglass resin to water proof it. And I downloaded some extracts from Don R Curtis about his model of the Robt. E. Lee so that has given me some other ideas to think about.  Sourcing windows and doors is the next research project found a couple of good websites thanks to other parts of this forum, there are about 100 windows and 74 doors with shutters on it so it is a major investment but a real hassle to make myself. has anyone got any ideas as to how to make them easier Maybe molds and resin? what materials for the molds? well that's it for now, I will post some more photos on the next update next week.
John

[Jaydee]

I made a mistake on the $50 price for the plastic for the paddle wheels it was the wrong type of plastic it could not be glued so if you go down this path make sure you get the plastic you can glue ASK THE ?   With the change of plastic the price was reduced to $20 cash, so they work out quite cheep this included the cutting of all the paddles to the actual size plus a few extra scrap bits, all I need to do now is the work. I have spent about 5 hours on them so far and they are coming along nicely still along way to go yet.  I have decided to use only 3 discs per wheel instead of 4 with 16 paddles mainly to reduce weight, I am notching the paddles into the outer edge of the discs to add strength and they will have a 35mm plastic hub machined to reduce more weight.
The 1st photo is of the wheels marked out ready for cutting.
The 2nd photo is of the actual cutting of the discs.

[Jaydee]

Hi PDs
I finally got back into the shed, continued working on the paddle wheels, finished cutting ribs out and put them into the lathe and cut the outside diam.  I now have them in the mill getting the slots cut to accept the paddles. the 1st photo is of the wheel in the lathe. I have also spent some time in the past thinking of how to build the Smoke stacks without adding to much weight up high they are about 600mm, I do not know if the smoke generators give out much heat in the stacks but if they do then I will put aluminium tubes through them.  Maybe one of you knowledgeable gentlemen can educate me on this subject.  Ps My dog thought they looked chewable.