MANUWAI

[kiwimodeller]

Greetings all, I collected a new 52" (without wheel) hull from Harry Duncan (Kiwi) last night and as I am on holidays for the rest of this week I have had time to mock a few things up and go to the local pond and do a floation test. It did float so I did not have to take it back to the manufacturer and complain. With a full boiler, and the engines, gas cylinders etc sitting in the bottom I needed 6 kilos of lead to bring her down to the waterline so that is promising and even allowing for superstructure (which will be light) and radio gear I should have enough spare displacement to fit in a couple of water tanks. At the moment the hull still has a flange on it as it came out of the mold and I will not take that off until I have glassed some frames and inwales in place. Harry supplied a nice set of laser cut frames which would be great for an electric powered model but as Sods Law dictates they interfere with the boiler etc on a steam powered one. I will be using two PM Research 1/2" by 3/4" double acting oscillators linked together but as I have done in my Waimarie sidewheeler everything will be mounted on heavy alloy plate with slotted mountings so I can substitute other engines over time. The Waimarie has been used as a test bed for five different engines at time. Some photos of the first mock up attached, more to come as things progress. Barry is beavering away on my wheel so I can look forward to that arriving also. Cheers, Ian.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's....... ....Ian...I have been looking more today [in Adelaide] @ your MANUWAI hull & the 3rd .jpg suggests that the height of the combined engine axis is similar if the engines were mounted vertically in standard format to as shown in the horizontal plane 

I understand weight above the waterline is a cautious consideration.......however if you considered the mass of the base that is being rotated downwards...may counter the mass of the cylinders being rotated upwards .....

...forgive me for suggesting....... ......bu I think visually the twin engines would be far easier to mount in the standard format & to the point that they could be partially exposed & viewed when the vessel is running 

To this point you are also unlimited in your consideration of making the boiler & engine running gear all partially viewable etc.........would make  for on lookers.........Derek  .......

[Harold H. Duncan]

Just so everyone knows what boat build Ian is undertaking, an advert from her heyday
kiwi

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's....... ...Ian & Kiwi.......I did not mean to suggest that the build should deviate from the original design........but any model build of an older vessel is a really series of compromises

The image of the original displays the boiler elevated in the forepeak  & with funnel aft......... and a smallish enclosed engine room in the aft 1/4

Model designer/builders nautical licence allows for any such revision to design to incorporate model components as available ....... from a commercially or financially based criteria  ...when we are changing from a potential model to original mechanical design by hidden image.....etc

I was aware of the huge lower open level deck & in hull space so thought it could be considered in utilising this as viewing area.....for the engine/boiler & drive components ..........Derek 

[Harold H. Duncan]

Mornin' Derek,
Sorry mate, wasn't getting at you. Happen to agree with you, that boiler looks real good, and to hide it away would be a crime. Even with the superstructure on, hope that the boiler  can still be visible. Think it would "look right".
Am also interested in how Ian is going to do the engines and paddlewheel drives. Would be a pity to hide the live steam away inside. Wonder if they could be mounted out where the originals where, and with shorter cranks on the wheel shaft, and a longer connecting rod, still be made to run.
Will have to sketch it out to see how it upsets the geometry for the ports, and if its at all possible for an oscillator.  Will have a fiddle when I get back from holiday.
cheers
kiwi

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's...... .....no Kiwi .......my earlier comment to Ian in another thread......was to consider reverse engineering the Delta Queen paddle wheel geometry ....ir3 in USA has commenced a build of this kit..... .....possibly a Moderator could copy Ian's first posting of the new hull into this thread 

1. the actual [nominal] DQ model stern paddle RPM is the starting point [and the ratio of diameters between the DQ model wheel & the Manuwai model wheel]
2. the DQ wheel build geometry [kit by Saito] is 30 years old so should be a proven functionality
3. copy the DQ crank length centers on the wheel
4. ir3 encountered a binding issue with the kit drive ....which from memory turned out to be an out of axis less that 90 degee relationship betweeen components
5. the length of the Pitman arms can be scaled to those of the Manuwai
6. copy the DQ crank length centers on the engine output shaft
7. we know that oscillators prefer to run at higher RPM & Ian has acknowledged that he will gear or chain drive down the ratio to maintain the optimal paddle RPM
8. so with some accurate & careful geometry I am sure this build [together with the fact that the lower deck area is totally open] will provide a great platform to present all of the steam components  ........ or should I say very WARM ..... .....Derek

[kiwimodeller]

The more discussion we cabn have before I start glassing and bolting things in the better I like it! Dereck the main considerations with mounting the engines horizontal were not only weight (they are pretty light engines anyway) but more that they would look more authentic laying down rather than poking out above deck and also that the pipework all enters the top of the standard which means that the pipes to the control valve would have to loop up and over. I think it will be tidier with the engines horizontal. The engines have large cast mounting bases but I intend to cut these off and mount with small screws tapped in to the side of the standard on a pitch circle centred on the crankshaft. Will do some photos of the side of the engine when I get a moment. As for the boiler that originally sat on top of the deck with the body of the boiler forward of the funnel. In the model I will need to mount the boiler down on the bottom of the hull to keep weight down. The top of the boiler will still protrude through the deck. The boiler I have is too long to run forward of the funnel and that would also put a lot of weight in the bows so it will have to be "back to front". Again photos will explain better. Cheers, Ian.

[Harold H. Duncan]

Hi Ian,
That boiler looks real good sitting where you have it, and can't wait to see what your going to do with the engines. Like them hoizontal, and don't cover them up. Even down on the floors, they will still look the part.
Keep up the good work
cheers
kiwi

[Eddy Matthews]

Won't the length of the steam lines from the boiler to the engine present problems? Just curious......

Regards
Eddy

[Harold H. Duncan]

Nothing a good lagging won't fix.
Sorry, couldn't resist that Eddy.
On the original boat, the steam supply line ran from the boiler under the upper deck and then down to the engines, after exiting the engines, it then ran back along side the supply line and exited up into the funnel.
Seemed to work, but an awful long way around.
cheers
Kiwi
ps be interesting to see how this one works

[kiwimodeller]

Eddy, I was a bit worried about the length of the steam pipe but with the boiler reversed so the majority of it is behind the funnel the length is not too bad and as Harry says lagging will help. I am hopeful that with the big boiler and twin gas cannisters I will have a surplus of steam which will help too. I did read somewhere about a similar setup where the supply to the engine was described as "slightly pressurised warm water" by the time it got to the back of the boat! Hopefully mine wont be that bad! Cheers, Ian.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's.....Ian....... ....I would not be concerned re the live steam tube run on this vessel ....however  ...real insulation methods should be employed...

In real steam applications....for example a 1/2"NB pipe @ 21.3 mm OD...may end up as 45 mm diameter  with grade class insulation......

Having espoused the qualities of real insulation    ...100% plain cotton tyne will char & progressively decompose @ 150 degrees C...... 'if' it is covered in a metal cladding

You may need to research & obtain a proprietry K-O-wool type string ........

Now we all know that real insulated steam pipes are not all shiny white ASBESTOS wraps ...but usually sheathed in galvanised tinplate......so a few wrap turns with you kitchen aluminium  foil will technically increase the thermal retention of the steam medium........ .......Derek 

[Barry]

Ian's paddle wheel is complete. A sneek peek.

[kiwimodeller]

Doesnt the wheel look great? I am especially pleased that Barry was able to copy the full size wheel with realistic offset overlapping floats. A bit different to most wheels. Cant wait for it to get here so I can start mocking up the mechanism. And by the way the price was right and Barry shouted postage.

[Eddy Matthews]

It's definitely an unusual wheel design, never seen one like that before!

Regards
Eddy