Saito Delta Queen Build

[kurlander]

Stopped building while my two grandchildren were with me this summer. They are gone and back to the basement.
Found out that the smoke stack tips back to the height of the pilot house and does not retract. When I saw it the black smoke was thick and covered the stack but I found this on the web.

[kurlander]

Moving along slowly. Found out that there was a 1/4th inch difference in the plans between the port and starboard side. As one can see I am using the drive plans on this site but used two 7 inch drawer runners to move the wheel for they have bearings. Soldered brass plates on each end so if I made a mistake I can replace the plate. The lattice in the top is my railing

[nzbruin]

Hello All,

This is my first post on PD.  I have read through this thread and noted the various frustrations you have been having with the Saito Delta Queen, Iran. I also note the general frustrations people seem to be having with sourcing Saito steam products.

An excellant source of Saito steam products is Model Shop Captain in Osaka (http://www.rc-ms-captain.jp/)  This is a relatively small suburban shop but sells about half of all steam products made by Saito.  They have quite a wide range of Saito products in stock (I have twice been to the shop and seen them on the shelves!).  They will also supply by mail order - I have purchased Delta Queen and Neptune together with engines, boilers etc by mail order and the service has been prompt.  Shipping charges have also been very reasonable.  There are only two problems:
 - the shop is run by a  very nice husband and wife (Mr and Mrs Takeuchi) but neither speaks or writes English - help from someone who can speak and write Japanese is essential.
 - they cannot accept international payments by credit card - if you go to the shop, there is no problem but if you order from overseas, you will need to make payment by bank draft.  I have done this twice with no problems.

As well as Saito engines, boilers and boat kits, Model Shop Captain also has the full range of Saito accessories (separator tanks, smoking tanks etc) and spare parts including steam fittings and o-rings.  I bought quite a few of these to avoid the sort of problems Iran seems to have been having with matching threads.  Model Shop Captain also offer their own very neat little pressure guage which I have used on two projects so far.  It has threads to fit a Saito boiler and is both smaller (22mm dia) and cheaper than the genuine Saito guage (which is about 50mm).

When I purchased Delta Queen, Mr Takeuchi sent me a letter with advice that he said come from the Saito factory.  There is a design problem with the direct drive connecting rods for the paddlewheel.  At some parts of the cycle, the rods are lower at the engine end than the paddlewheel end.  Apparently, this leads to a lot of water coming down the rods into the boxes either side of the engine and then into the hull.  The modification advised by Saito is to use an intermediate shaft mounted directly above the engine bearings and driven from the crankshaft by gears or a belt.  The advice also suggested that a 2:1 reduction in the gearing is beneficial to keep the engine running smoothly at low revs (it has no flywheel).  The letter included simple drawings and, if you like, I could try to scan it.

After buying the Delta Queen kit, I became interested in the original ship so took a cruise on it shortly before it went out of service in late 2009.  Apart from being fascinating to see the real thing in action (including a tour of the engine room), I took lots of photos.  Dealing with a couple of the questions raised in this thread, I can say that, in its final form:
 - the foredeck is red painted steel plate (see attached photo)
 - the funnel folds to the rear (see attached photo)

As a contirbution to the discussion about the padlewheel, I attach a photo of that as well.

If Iran or anyone else would like to see more photos of the real DQ, I am happy to post them or provide them on CD.

One interesting feature of the real DQ I discovered when on board is that it was fitted with bow and stern thrusters some time in the 1990s.  The DQ had aparently become almost a danger to other river traffic because of its very poor turning ability and was unable to safely get into several mooring places.  I plan to install thrusters on my model because I know people have had a lot of trouble steering sternwheelers.

Regards.

Tony

[kurlander]

Thanks for the information. I just watched my recording of World Cup Rugby from NZ and was happy to see the ALL BLACKS finally beat France in the championships.
I was aware of the bow thruster and have installed one but didn't know about the stern one. As a scratch builder I also found that water would seep in so I put the motor and drive at deck level and the only thing under is the thruster with the motor in its own compartment just in case and a bilge pump.
Do your photographs show air conditioning/heating ducts running along the second deck (see attachment) or is that something added when converted to a hotel?.
I am again going to take a trip to it March 6, 2012 to do some refined photographs (1400 miles+ round trip) to answer several questions for my tour guide the last time was the chef/janitor/handy man/etc who only new the basics.
You are right about the color of the bow but the sides are black and the stern is red. The Delta King in California has the black deck.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's....& welcome onboard NZB-Tony 

That is an interesting post with the detail of (Mr and Mrs Takeuchi) & certainly their SAITO pricing appears very competitive [pity about the credit card & the language barrier...however Bank exchanges are not difficiult & Google translation is near fool proof]

[When I deal with Japanese work colleagues....invariably I type the communication    in English but also translate into Japanese in the same e-mail....it has not failed yet]

Having said all of this....I have previously acknowledged that I support my local model supply store for the components that they stock 

The issue with my original SAITO Y2DR purchase enquiry was  ...

"the local hobby shop does not stock SAITO"
"the Australian importer of SAITO not stock SAITO"
But I still forced to purchase the a local model supply store

CRAZY marketing.......... & hence the huge % mark ups ......

Keep us posted with your DQ or any other build....... Derek

[nzbruin]

Hello

A reply to Kurlander about the DQ ducting.  I do not recall this being there when I took my cruise on the vessel (which I realise now was 2008 rather than 2009 as I suggested in my first post).  I attach photos of the upper and lower deck showing the underside of the roof - no ducts.

I realise that two of the photos I thought I had attached to my earlier post was missing - the one of the funnel and the one of foredeck.  They are attached here.  Let me know if there are any other aspects of the real DQ you are interested in as I took about 100 photos.

In response to Derek, by all means have a go at communicating with Mr Takeuchi by computer translation.  I can tell for certain that he will not understand the Engish text other than words like "boiler"!  Mind you, I had another look at the Model Shop Captain website after sending my earlier post and I see it has been completely upgraded, including "contact us" so it may be that he has had some help from a webmaster.  If so, that person may help him understand messages in English.  I will give it a try myself soon.

Regards.

Tony

[ir3]

Hi PD'rs,

Well, my DQ still sits on the workbench. When I started this project I was looking forward to putting a very nicely detailed DQ on the water. However, throughout the building process it became very clear that the amount of work needed to get the kit just right proved to be quite overwhelming. Most of the problems were due to shrinkage of the wood over time. Pieces did not quite match up. I think this kit was at least 10 and perhaps 15 years old. Of course, I can't claim that if I had a fresh kit I would have done any better. I just simply have lost interest in finishing the model. Wood models are now out of the question for me. I have a very nice backlog of various kits in plastic, fiberglass, grp ... several of which will be steam powered.

Of course, now I have the TY2DR steam plant that I probably will not find an application for. I am located in Los Angeles, CA, USA if there is anyone interested in this model as is. I have no problem parting with the steam  plant and letting the rest of the model sit and gather dust.

I am very happy that I started the thread and the contributions to the thread have been great. The skills and dedication of the contributors is exemplary. Keep the thread going. I will be following it very closely.

Regards to all,

Iran

[kurlander]

If I was living in CA I would probably be at your door yesterday but since I live 1500+ miles away and will only be in LA until next spring I have to do this by computer.
The question is can your engine can drive a 1/50 scale paddle wheel in water?. I ask this question for I found out that a drive belt is not strong enough for it slips.
So that I would not have to go to the lake to test things out I built a 7 foot by 3 foot frame 1 foot deep on my back deck and put in plastic to hold water. Due to early cold I disassemble it before photographing it to avoid deck problems so I will do it next spring.

[ir3]

Hi Kurlander and PD'rs,

I can't answer directly the question about driving the 1/50 scale paddle wheel but I am sure that there is plenty of expertise on this forum to answer the question. The steam plant is the TY2DR which is made for the Saito DQ and the B2F boiler.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's..... ...if the wheel is 1:50 then the scale of the vessel is also 1:50.......but what size is the original vessel......300 foot long or 100 foot long?

This is the missing dimension in the question & to make matters more complex   ....steam power it self can be a very deceiving medium

Steam engines produce their greatest output torque [power] at the lowest RPM  ...whereas electric motors provide their greatest output torque [power] at near full nominal RPM 

Saito state that their Y2DR 9CC twin cylinder horizontal engine is capable of producing 0.035HP..........thats approx 26 watts of output power

Saito also advise the engine is designed for vessels between 1000 mm and 1500 mm in length


Secondly, the Y2DR is designed for direct or indirect motion but based upon a 1:1 drive...if you are having difficulity with belt slippage it is the inability of the belt to transmit the power being delivered........a toothed belt would not suffer from belt slip...but may cause the motor to be loaded to the point where thermal build up creates an issue & current draw skyrockets .....there are so many variables here 

Derek

 

[kurlander]

You got me thinking for I was just reading Hartman's plans and did not measure the drawings themselves.
My boat is 69.5 inches long or about 1/48 scale and should be 67 inches long at 1/50 scale if I did my arithmetic (my worst subject) right.
He writes on the plans to make cardboard cutouts of the drawings and I did and they state 1/50 scale. I should have started to think when the two deck sides were off by a 1/4 inch. The actual boat is 285 feet long and my hull is 69.5 inches with wheel or 1770 mm or past Saitos' recommendation. If the recommendation is just the hull without wheel then it is about 1541mm or at the top of the range.
At the present time I went into my parts department and salvaged a high torque motor from one of my RC cars and geared it down and until I am done will use it while looking for a steam engine.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's..........kurlander  ...I am sure SAITO are talking of hull length.....

Your "temporary" fix of a salvaged a high torque geared down electric motor is fine....are you aiming for say 100 to 150 paddle shaft RPM? ...or say 200 RPM & use a speed controller?

The latter would provide a far more accurate method for determining the optimum max revs........& you could also then measure current draw & convert that to watts .....but  ...as they would be input watts...so would need to make an assumption of the actual motor & drive efficiency ......maybe 60% ?

Keep us posted with your progress & some photo images if possible....always an interesting subject  these paddlers

Derek 

[ir3]

Hi PD'rs,

I am now between the proverbial rock and a hard place. There was some interest in the TY2DR but it is still in the boat. I am at a decision point. After reading some of the comments about the possible necessity to change the geometry of the Paddle Wheel drive because of water getting back into the hull and the apparent need to go to a 2:1 reduction to drive the Wheel since the TY2DR may not be able to run at very low speeds, I am going to pull the engine out of the boat and try to sell it through some of the modeling venues. When I saw some of the model DQ videos I thought that they were moving a bit fast for the correct scale. As I said before, this was not a very satisfying build and now faced with the possibility of some retrofitting, the boat goes. Once again, if the boat were packed up and shipped within the US, the shipping charges would be manageable. If anyone has any interest in acquiring the nearly complete boat or the whole 9 yards please let me know.

Thanks,

Iran

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hullo Iran...... to read of the continued issues you found with the model of your DQ build.....

I could only hope that you may keep alive a desire to build another paddler & look forward to your postings in the future........ .....Derek

PS.... ...but that Y2DR will appreciate in % value greater that the national home current market %........ $ of the USA.........    

[kurlander]

I have slowly progressed with the Delta Queen for there are some discrepancies between the plans and the photos so I will be driving to Chattanooga TN in March (1400 miles round trip) to verify what  I think I saw and photograph the slide references shown on the plans. Yesterday and today I am cutting out 80 doors with panels and then will start with the windows. For doorknobs will use small gold pins pushed through and glued in back. Got that Idea assembling the paddle wheel.
I have decided to go electric but wanted smoke out of the stack but found out that no one is allowed to ship such unit out of Europe where almost all units are. I recently found one in the USA at http://www.harbormodels.com/ .
I will check it out before buying when I go to California in June.  It looks like I could run a small tube from it to the calliope to make it smoke when playing. I like the idea that it puts out variable smoke with the throttle.
Since this is the cold time 4 to37 degrees F (-15 to5 C) I can't do any painting for I am not allowed to stink up the house unless the windows are open it has to wait until spring.