Saito Steam Engine

[derekwarner_decoy]

Thanks kno3......I do appreciate critical questioning  .....as this is my first steam installation

I am sort of stuck between the rock & the proverbial here......with the proposed installation into a new hull of PS Adelaide @ 1:20.......I find

1. The engine cylinders on Adelaide were in the horizontal plane with the engine crankshaft closest to the boiler chimney
2. For me to achieve a similar scaled installation dictates that a live steam run of 215 linear mm [which include the 42 mm for the lubricator] from the discharge isolation valve on top of the boiler to the inlet of the steam regulator just underneath the steam inlet port tube on the engine
3. I do understand the need to minimise condensation in the live steam line & hence my removal of the initial steam lagging until I can better understand a method of providing functional lagging over just the visual string wraps
4. I have looked at many French model vessel steam WEB sites and found many examples of similar sized horizontal boilers with lagged live steam lines estimated at greater than 200 mm

Naturally if any PD has any comments.......please let them be known.......

I will post this same massage on Model Mayhem.........there are some very experienced steamers there...& as you know some    who are critically critical ......... Derek

[derekwarner_decoy]

From our archives, I also found a posting by member Andy of his Diessen build from October 2009 which depicts greater than 200 mm of live steam lagged tubing......I will send a PM to Andy asking about this ....Derek

[Harold H. Duncan]

Hi Derek,
Beautiful engine/ boiler you have there, but may I ask, when do you intend starting on ps Adelaide to put it into.
And yes, I'm aware of the previous issues you have had with hulls.
At 1/20th she should be a most impressive paddler on the water.
I lived in S.A. for some time and spent many a relaxing weekend on the river, even up as far as Echuca.
Will continue to follow your progress
cheers
kiwi   

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's.......& hullo kiwi.......yes I know my vessel building progress over the years [13 of them] has been slow to say the least   ......

I have recently purchased the Float a Boat plans for PS Adelaide @1050 mm overall length & had the plans increased by 20% to approx. 1260 mm overall  that the reason for this was to increase the floatation to enable to 6 kg of boiler & engine components to float

In retrospect, the silliest thing I did was draw my own paddler plans in the year 2000 based on two 2"x2" images from Ships of the Australian Rivers ........just CRAZY  ...however I can only blame myself for that

I can make no promises other than that I have recently purchased a Proxxon FKSE baby table saw & a few metres of Tassie oak & Canadian cedar.....I have also started a material listing as attached........Derek

[Harold H. Duncan]

Hi Derek,
Its all part of life's experiences, all good.
"He who never made a mistake, never learned anything."
I'm sure you will be one very proud man, when you see your creation on the water for the first time, whenever that may be.
No rush, work at a pace you are comfortable with, and enjoy the journey.
cheers
kiwi

[kno3]

Hi Derek,

It looks to me that the fresh steam pipe comes from the boiler down to the regulator valve, then goes under the engine to a second valve and back to the engine, parallel to the pipe holding the gauges?

I just thought your steam pipe could be much shorter in the current set up if you make it go directly from the boiler to the engine, without going under the engine and back etc.

At least that's my approach when building steam plants, to use the shortest practical route.

But you can of course make it any way you think it looks best. it's just that all  those valves, pipes and gauges on the fresh steam route will have great heat losses, and it will be a challenge to insulate them all.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Thanks kno3........I received a PM from Andy.......& he also noted wet steam with the insulated long steam line.....so, considering this & your comments I have three options

1. Do nothing & test the system
2. Blank the Tee fitting that leads to the gauge isolation valve block >>>> the 3 gauges>>>> this line is then supported only on the vertical riser to the engine port, so with this the gauges would still be seen but not functional....

I take your point  "it's just that all  those valves, pipes and gauges on the fresh steam route will have great heat losses, and it will be a challenge to insulate them all"

3. Reverse the engine inlet tube from port to stdb........[this reduces approx. 85 mm of steam inlet tube length  ], replace the Tee fitting with an Elbow fitting & install the 1" gauge only in the modified/existing vertical riser to the engine port....this would display steam pressure after the regulator to the engine
3b. Install a second 3/4" gauge somewhere after the lubricator poking up from the engine ...this would display boiler steam pressure
3c. Install the 1/2" gauge somewhere after the lubricator poking up from the engine .........
3d. Insulate the individual tube to gauge runs after the individual syphon's

I have spent most of last night thinking & consider option's 3a. to 3d. to be the far more logical ....after all I will not see all of the 3 gauges when the vessel is in the water and the potential to minimise condensation is greatly improved.....thanks for your questioning comments 

Here is a mockup  of the reversed steam inlet tube positioning ....Derek

[kno3]

Seems better this way. Put one gauge on the boiler and one near the engine, to highlight the differences in pressure.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's........The 1:20 scale copper smiths have been working on night shift & ripped the 3 gauges, isolation valve block & tube work out     for fear of being a condensation issue
They have been replaced with a single gauge & minimal fittings which should be easier to lag/insulate..........
Gerald....the reason I removed the initial lagging was simply that it was a botched application.......very untidy at each end    .......I think I have a fix for this now.......Derek

[kno3]

A test under steam is due now.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Guys.....I know the progress is slow in Wollongong  ....but I have an issue that has been bugging me for a few days 

1. I need to build a variation of the first image for the reversal mechanism of the Saito Y2DR engine
2. The issue is that the horizontal bar only moves 15 mm, but is 135 mm above the engine base, so I need to support this 1/8"diameter vertical brass rod  in all planes ..ie., N>S + E>W 

3. I had considered a strongback between the HP round flange between each cylinder back to the 1/8"vertical......but this is OK for [<> or ><] one plane only
4. The next thought was a fabricated triangular strongback between the M2 bolts of each cylinder endcap back to the 1/8"vertical
5. On thought dismissed was 4 x tensioned tie wires back to the base plate......

Not sure......Derek.......

[Harold H. Duncan]

Derek,
If you extended the vertical down some, and had inserted into the deck a sleeve of the appropriate diameter, then you wouldn't need any support to the top. The sleeve being bonded into the deck etc, and the flange screws holding the whole to the deck, once the post slid into place in the sleeve.
Just a thought
cheers
vnkiwi   

[derekwarner_decoy]

Thanks VNK........

1. The 1/8"diameter x 135 high vertical rod is supported in a 16 diameter 4 bolt flange which is to be bolted down to the 1/8" thick aluminium base plate
2. The horizontal bar element between the reversing quadrant & the vertical will also be approx. 135 mm long
3. I plan to install the reversing servo in the cabin space just FWD of the STDB paddlebox .....the axis of this will be only some 40 mm above deck level
4. I am not concerned with any of the geometry of the arrangement......

But just the deflection of the top of the 135 tall 1/8" diameter rod........... .............

I am about to go upstairs ...to watch R1 of Clipsal V8 supercars............do you have it live?....as there are a few good NZ drivers in participation........ Derek 

[derekwarner_decoy]

 ...unashamedly...& rather reinvent the wheel....... I have copied the original concept from a French model builder

1. the first version was 3.12mm  diameter a 135 mm high & even with the supporting flanges it twisted
2. the final version is still 3.12mm diameter brass round core x 135 mm high, but with 6.4mm brass tube soldered to the flange hubs x 69mm high...then a 3.96mm diameter tube extending upwards
3. there is also an additional  2.5mm support leg @ 45 degrees to the right angled motion change of direction

End result is a very stable support structure.................Derek

PS....the horizontal control shaft is near perfectly level when moved to the extremities in either direction....just an optical illusion here   

[Harold H. Duncan]

Derek,
Very elegant solution
You know your going to have to make a start on the hull sometime soon, don't you.
Or have you already made a start without informing us.
Assuming the rest of the boat will be to the same standard of workmanship as your engine, this is going to be one awesome model.
take care
vnkiwi