DEPV Talisman

[ancoaster78]

Hi Everybody,

Not had any time at all for paddlers, cept day dreams for months as been renovating and selling my flat, sale now going through and I frantically clearing out the loft.

Whilst sorting through that loft I found that my glassfibre talisman hull has got a bit squashed.

I'm not sure if I evver will get round to building it anyways, as I have many other projects I wish to build first, I was about to throw it away when I thought maybe with some framing up inside it might be salvagable. It has had something heavy sitting on it, so the top of the hull side have splayed outwards considerably.

Any idea if this is a write off or might be saved or if im best just throwing it and moving on!

All thoughts welcome,

Cheers, Andrew

PS, sorry if this isnt the right place to post this.

[Stuart Badger]

Hi Andrew

Don't throw it away. Hot water, a hair dryer some clamps and frames will usually salvage all but ther most crushed GRP Moulding.

All the best

stuart

[djcf]

Hi Andrew,
I agree with Stuart, I managed recently to improve a fibreglass hull with hot water & a jig.
Some framing should keep everything in shape.
Give it a go!
regards
Clark

[ancoaster78]

Thanks guys, you've saved it from the dump, will give it a try sometime....

....Cheers 

[ancoaster78]

Hi guys,

Inspired by your answers here and Clark's excellent 'Marchoness of Lorne' build, which I have only just come across, I am right now having a go at correcting my Talisman hull.

I got it down from the loft at my new place a few days ago (at the encouragement of an uncle from down under who is staying for a few weeks, a fellow modeller, trains not boats though) and noticed that most of the squashing it had suffered before my move has corrected itself, but the raised bottom, exactly as Clark suffered in his build was still the same, this morning I part filled the hull with very hot water and placed dumbell weights along the bottom of it, and encoraged by an apparent reduction of the rise in the bottom, which was about 1/4 inch by half I have repeated the proceedeure just a few minutes ago as the water had gone cold, and now eagerly awaiting further results....

I have also just aquired and read the Alan Brown book about Talisman, and re-read the Brown/Polglaze book on HMS Aristocrat I already had, and so now have a renewed enthusiasm for this little ship, so if the hull correction goes well, I might actually build up the model after all....

Anyone suggest what the best adhesive to fix frames into this hull to keep it in shape is? It's my first time doing anything with glass fibre.

Cheers :-)

[Stuart Badger]

Hi

Two methods suggest themselves. Either make an internal, conventional set of frames and keel to lie flush with the inside of the hull and glue it in place (not neccessarily accurate enough!) or - make a cradle to the CORRECT outside profile of the hull (about 6 frames and a keel) and use the waste to make another INTERNAL frame minus the thickness of the hull. You can then glue the internal frame into place using the external frame to provide support while the adhesive sets. Do NOT be tempted to use 5 min epoxy or similar to mount the internal bracing. Use glassfibre resin and maybe a little cloth on the joints to the hull - it takes a long time to cure but wont let go in the future and is MUCH more permanent.

Hope this helps

All the best

Stuart

[ancoaster78]

Thanks Stuart,

Disapointing about the 5 min epoxy, was kinda hoping that would be good enough, but I take your point, better a bit more work now than mission impossible to correct serious faults later!

Second soaking produced a slight improvement, but not good enough, this thing is stubborn....third soaking now taking place....

Is this normal for g/f hulls? Or have I just got an especially bad one? Seems a lot of money to pay for something so faulty, and putting it right seems almost as much effort as building from scratch, just initial thoughts, but failing to see the benefits, except mass production, just now....

[djcf]

Hi Andrew,
 I'm glad you are having a go at the hull. With my hull, the rise up in the bottom was about 3mm, much less than your Talisman hull. I didn't cure the bottom completely, still rises very slightly.
 I made sure the hull wasn't twisted, as Stuart said, and everything was symetrical, before making a jig and putting bracing in the hull.
 The hull has kept its shape well, hasn't moved at all, but I never had to put a lot of pressure on it at any time.
 This is the second fibreglass hull I have worked with, have had to reshape both! With Lochiel I had to basically cut most of the bow off and start again!!
Good luck with the hull,

Clark

[Stuart Badger]

The usual problem with all of these commercial hulls (and this is only my opinion!!!) is that they are removed from the mould too early. The stresses in the hull haven't had time to equalise and the resin is not hard enough to resist the deformation without support from the mould.

I'm afraid I used to be a pain in the a###e when I shopped for a hull, going armed with a plate of glass and 2 T squares! This resulted in a lot of ill feeling from retailers (no surprise there then!) - but also saved me from countless fibreglass bananas!

All the best

Stuart

[steamboatmodel]

I have never done fiberglass model hulls from a mold, but did help do Canoes and dune buggy shells back when I was in High School. With both of them we let the resin cure in the mold overnight, but if we were doing one for ourselves we would mold them in Thursday evening and somehow forget to take it out until Monday. Non of our weekend cured units warped or twisted, but the overnight ones you had to use right away.
Regards,
Gerald.
PS one of the weekend special Canoes is still going strong and it was done over 40 years ago, I wish I hadn't sold it.

[ancoaster78]

Hi Guys,

Am just reading throught this website....

http://www.okieboat.org/Ship%20model%20page.html

I had hoped to get away with the first option Stuart suggested, but after spending a large chunk of today with the hull, the weights and a plywood outline of the deck i'm thinking it isnt going to be enough, some of the good achieved yesterday undid itself overnight, the bottom seems to have settledon about 1/8'' rise and the sides of the hull just refuse to stay even close to upright unaided 

That website shows the other option in practise, a lot of extra work but might be the only way for this particular hull, which is 10 years old and been kept in the loft virtually all of that time, in fairness to it and its makers, ops.

I am awaiting a few extra drawings for my Jeanie Deans from the Glasgow Archives, a couple were unable to be copied except photgraphically so I have been given a couple of weeks to wait, will keep playing with this for a bit longer, and give it up if not succeeded by the time those extra Jeanie plans arrive!

Clark, I understand what you mean about that bow, both bow and stern will be needing surgery to improve accuracy on this too.

Stuart, understand totally the need to get the T squares out, some of these hulls arn't cheap and so its fair to want to see what you're paying for. I don't think its fair on you that it should have caused bad feeling

and Gerald, canoes eh? Lots of fun, after occasional kayaking trips over many years, this summer took a short lesson in canoeing for the first time, wow that J stroke was hard to master, need to practise but i did do better than the others in our group at least, and it made a nice change :-D Hopeing to canoe Sweden next year!

Cheers