Westward Ho

[ancoaster78]

Hi Malcolm,

Very excited to hear about the steam launch, doing one of those is on my very long term list. Really hope you do get to complete it, probally not a winter project though!

As for Westward Ho, modifying above the waterline as you suggest is a good solution, it will allow ease and speed of construction and potentially a far better finished result than the plan as given. I will see if I can come up with a basic plan with the key dimensions on it making clear whats what, from that you can then ammend the PM drawings to suit your preferences.

Not sure what format is best to do this in so it can be easily posted on here, design is my thing, computers are not! ideas anyone? the sponsons, portholes and paddle boxes are all incorrect on the profile in PM, i will endeavour to include as many key dimensions that I know for certain as possible to allow you to get it as close to accurate as possible, i'm almost as excited to see this done as if it were my own project, that little ship really is a favorite!

Are you intending to build the ship at the size shown in the PM? For scale, the westbury paddles which i believe are 5 3/4'' dia (maybe Geoff will confirm?) will be considerably too large in scale for a 4ft model (approx 1:58 scale), possibly weight too, ive not built that size ever so can't say. The paddle boxes have been enlarged on the PM drawing for this, however they would be an almost perfect match at 5/16'' to a foot scale (1:38.4), which would give a model a little under 6' is this too big?  Another option is to enalarge the plan less, up to 1/4'' to the foot scale (1:48), a very popular scale, this will mean the paddle wheels are only an inch too large, and give a model of approx 58'' possibly the compromise?

If you are keen, let me know your preferences on this, and i will draw you up a kwik key dimensions plan allowing the best accuracy possible for which ever option you prefer....anything for the Westward Ho  

PS As for the baseline, that is an invisible datum used when building a real ship, on most ships it is generally the underside of the keel, for modelling purposes that normally means the bottom of the hull, as is the case on this ship. However, where this ship is unusual is that according to the midship section drawing from the shipyard (same on the better quality PS Britannia one, and PS Ravenswood too) it has a 6'' keel protruding down from the bottom of the hull on the centre line, all the way from the stem to the sternpost. So the drafe of the hull is 5'6'' + 6'' keel below the hull giving total draft of 6', will put this on the diagram if needed, its quite old fashioned!

[Eddy Matthews]

Not sure what format is best to do this in so it can be easily posted on here, design is my thing, computers are not! ideas anyone?

There's best and there is easiest and they aren't the same thing!

The best is undoutably CAD in either DWG or DXF format, but not everyone has software that can read, and more importantly, print those files.

The easiest for most people is Adobe Acrobat (PDF) format - The reader is free, and it's easy to print large drawings using a standard A4 printer - it just prints multiple sheets that you can paste together. It's also easy to print at a different scale if you wish to....

Regards
Eddy

[ancoaster78]

Eddy, I can draw DXF or DWF but my CAD wont save a drawing as a PDF.

Is there anything I can do to convert the drawing somehow to PDF?

Or any idea what I could draw in to get it to save as a PDF?

All a learning curve to me 

[Eddy Matthews]

Andy,

You can use the software at this link to convert from DXF to PDF - But the free version only works 30 times before you have to register and buy it.... Should be good enough to play around with?

http://anydwg.com/dxf-to-pdf-ex.html

Regards
Eddy

[ancoaster78]

Nice one, thanks Eddy.

Certainly don't think i'll need 30 attempts ;-)

[Malcolm]

Hi all.  My computer skills are quite basic; I hope I can cope with all this.
Andy, I am alarmed to see how badly flawed the "P.M." design is.  The error with the paddle wheel diameter is really worrying, because I really do not want to have to make a set of feathering wheels from scratch. I do not think that I would wish to go above 48inch length, because of practical problems in accommodating and transporting anything larger. So, as I see it, I have four options:
(a) Build as PM design, and accept that it is not a true representation, (b) build to your dimensions and hope something turns up with regard to the paddles, (c) build to your dimensions but accept oversized paddles or (d) turn to another design altogether. I am inclined towards (b), but will give it some thought over the next few days.
If anyone knows of commercial wheels smaller than 5.75 inches, perhaps they would let me know.I would prefer to avoid plastic if possible.
Malcolm.

[R.G.Y.]

Yes the diameter of the westbury paddle wheel 5-7/8" and the floats 2-5/8" + 1-1/8. But don't worry make your own it's not at all difficult. All you need is a sheet of aluminium about 1/16" (1.5mm) thick, 1/2" gimp pins ( small nails with a round head (B&Q)) small tube a good fit on the gimp pins and larger tube to fit over you drive shaft. The tools a scroll or jig saw small hammer drill, flies, side cutters and soldering iron. Mark out the wheel and drill gimp pin size holes at the pivot points of the floats and the center. Cut out a square containing the marking out and 3 more squares the same size, clamp together and drill through 2 holes, push gimp pins through both holes cut off with side cutters, rest the pin head on a hard surface then very gently hammer the cut end too form a rivet. Drill the remainder of the holes more can be riveted if necessary. Cut the aperture's before cutting the perimeter using scroll saw, drill center hole to fit shaft tube and file off rivets, 2 of the wheels can be panel beaten to dish the center about 1/2" (be sure to make a left and right hand)but this is not essential.  Mount these wheels to the shaft tube, make 4 cut down the end of the tube 1/4" bend open the tabs formed to 90 degrees, thread on the wheel drill through tabs and rivet. I now have a lathe and would make a proper hub. A pattern is made for the floats with 2 holes for rivets to hold the hinge bracket 1/4" narrower than the distance between the wheel frames. mark a face edge and face side ( if turned around any discrepancies will be doubled). Thin strips of Ali 3/16" wide form the hinge and feathering arm. more to followR.G.Y.

[R.G.Y.]

5 holes 2 to fix the float 2 for the pivots(wrist pins)and 1 for the feathering rod. A rough fig made to bend the brackets, a block of hard wood the width over the wheel frames. nails to fit the holes in floats in the top when the bracket is bent the hinge holes must be the same distance down the side. Rivet to the floats always make a right and left hand set. Cut the thin tube to fit between the hinge bracket less the thickness of the wheel frames, File with a triangular file until there is a hole into the tube, not to big, a 1/4" from each end. The assembly procedure thread the inner wheel on the shaft tube, put a float through the appropriate spacewith the hinge on the outside of both wheels, place a tube between the wheels line up the holes and insert a cleaned and fluxed gimp pin, run solder into the v hole to prevent the pin coming out. Repeat until the wheel is complete. A small amount of epoxy will fix the inner wheel to the shaft tube. Feathering rods made from thin tube flatten both ends and drill. T|he king rod made of sheet holes for gimp pin around the base. and 1/8" hole in center to accept a screw protruding from the sponson forward of the center line of the main shaft. assemble the feathering gear with gimp pins and solder washers cut from a steel can snip of the ends of the pins. The solder will not stick to the aluminium so all will work well. finally use a small self tapping screw to fix the shaft tube to the shaft. I could have made a set quicker than writing this. Geoff.

[Malcolm]

Hi all.
     Kim, thanks for your idea of slightly widening the beam. Worth bearing in mind.
     Geoff, I think you may have made it sound simpler than it really is, but your remarks have encouraged me. I can do it; it's just that time is short. In the circumstances, I hope that you won't mind if I don't proceed with buying your Westbury paddles; I hope I haven't messed you about too much.
      Andy, if you can come up with some dimensions, I would like to proceed with the  PM design, modified toward truer scale as far as I can.
       If any of you would like to see my steam launch, look on the Steam Boat Association home page, click on "register", then "Iris".       Malcolm.

[ancoaster78]

Hi Malcolm,

I have drawn up what I think you need to get started on CAD, a simplified version of my own drawings for the ship I am working on, but can't figure yet how to get it from the CAD onto here, it seems to be stuck in 'modelspace' not in a finished drawing status, which is confusing for me as its only the first time i've had to do something like this, never prionted off this CAD before or had to forward a document!!!!

Anyone know how I get the drawing from some huge infinate model space into a sensibly sized drawing?

In the meantime, so you can get going, here are the principle dimensions in better details so you can get busy modifiying the PM plans to suit your needs....

First of all, the stem should be vertical, not sloping forward as shown in PW. The very front edge of the stem is the 'Forward Perpendicular' on this ship. The After end of the Stern post is the 'Aft Perpendicular'

The length between those perpendiculars is 225' The overhang at the stern is 6'6'' giving a total length for the hull of 231'6''.

The part at the stern where the hull steps up from quarterdeck level to promenade deck level is 13' forward of the Aft perpendicular, or 19'6'' forward of the very stern edge of the hull. The step up from quaterdeck level to promdeck is 4'.

The paddle shaft is 100'9'' forward of the Aft perpendicular, and 124'3'' aft of the Forward Perpendicular.

The forward edge of the forward sponson house is 95'3'' aft of the forward perpendicular.

The forward edge of the paddlebox is 18' aft of the forward edge of the forward sponson house.

The paddlebox is 28' long at its base, and run from 11' forward of the centreline of the paddleshaft, to 17' aft of it.

The aft end of the aft sponson house is 77'9'' forward of the after perpendicular, and 6' aft of the aft end of the paddle box.

The lowest point of the hull sheer is 17' above the baseline. The highest point at the bow, is approx 20'6'' above the baseline (this dimensions scaled from drawing, and still being testing on my drawings for accuracy...)
   
The underside of the sponson belting is 9'8'' above the baseline.

The top of the paddlebox is 22'2'' above the baseline.

The centreline of the paddleshaft is 11'1'' above the baseline.

The hull is 26' wide. The outside face of the paddlebox is 25'5'' out from the centreline of the hull.

The outside edge of the sponson belting is 27'3'' out from the centreline, which is 22'' out from the face of the paddlebox, this is comprised of the 15'' high x 12'' wide spring beam, and outside of that the 10'' wide belting.

There is a 6'' stempost and 6'' sternpost, these are both inside the perpendiculars, and are linked by the 6'' external keel which is below the baseline/bottom of the hull.

I hope that is easy enough to follow, if not don't hesitate to ask, also it is not a complete list obviously, I will provide other dimensiosn as you comeaccross the need for the, also hopefully I will be able to work out how to get the drawing on here which will make it all clearer, or failing that if youre desperte, i'll post a sketch to you with the dimensions on.

All the best with the project! 

[Eddy Matthews]

How big is the file Andy, and what format is it in now?

As an Admin I can bypass most of the limits that users are limited to, so unless it really is HUGE, I can probably put it up on the website for you - I'm sure it would be of interest to a lot of others as well....

Regards
Eddy

[R.G.Y.]

NO problems Malcolm. Honest it is easy I forgot to say rivet  2 or 3 floats, hinge brackets to the patterns and file to shape. They do last I have had no trouble in years. Geoff.

[Harold H. Duncan]

Hi,
assuming you are using something like Autocad, then you "print" to PDF, not "save".
If you let us know what cad you are using, then maybe we can give you some steps to help out
cheers
kiwi

[Malcolm]

Hi Andy. First of all may I thank you very much for your time and trouble so far. Much appreciated. As I explained, I am no computer expert, and my drawings are still done with drawing board and tee square, as I was taught at Tech many years ago. Also please excuse me if I misuse any nautical terms.  I have already drawn up the "PM" design side view to full model size. I shall mark on it the dimensions you have given me to see what alterations are needed. Can I take it that the sternpost is a vertical axis through the rudder shaft? Before I can actually cut wood I shall need to know how much the hull lines need to be modified, but this is not urgent, as this is really a winter project, and I have not identified suitable wood yet.  I have a source of planed Iroko, which I used on the steamboat. This might be a little heavy, although being strong it would permit of a quite thin hull. Another alternative suggested is marine ply. Any ideas anyone?  It is quite difficult to get hold of decent seasoned timber in this area.  Malcolm.

[ancoaster78]

Hi All,

I use TurboCAD, and it is quite an old version that came free as a cover disk on a magazine which I didnt even buy as someone saw it and thought of me and got it me as a gift :-)

It isn't at all flash or up to date, but entirely suitable for producing 2D drawings.

The trouble I am having, is not the saving it as the right format, I will let me save as almost anything, from which I could use the link Eddy posted to get it into PDF for Acrobat, but I am having trouble how to control the physical dimensions of the drawing. The way I have drawn this, and all my other ships, is in what the program calls 'model space' which is basically a limitless page, the drawing even at 1mm to the Inch scale (not used for modelling, but I find very convinient for comparitivly rapidly drawing up hull lines, getting the design right etc before converting back into the Imperical units on the 1:32 scale finished drawing, makes sense in my mind, honest!) is pretty tiny compared to the vastness of the page! I could even draw the shop at full size and it would be a tiny blip!

So, my trouble is how to move the drawing I have done, onto a set page that could be printed or posted. I need to figure how to put boundaries in as it were, does this make sense? Any suggestions welcome, ive gotta learn at some point, all my ships are drawn this way, so at some point I will need to tidy up all of the drawings!!

Cheers guys, am sure we'll get there ;-)