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Author Topic: "Must have" books  (Read 4230 times)

Waverley

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"Must have" books
« on: May 30, 2005, 06:37:06 AM »
Hi all

It's very difficult to reccommend books to others, as different people have different requirements. If nothing else, I am mainly interested in the history of shipping so I look for original research and lots of text and detail - someone who is primarily interested in modelling may place a greater emphasis on illustrations.   Please don't blame me if you invest lots of money for one of these and don't like it.   Please also bear in mind that few of these books are purely padddle steamer - most shipping companies "progressed" from paddle to screw, and from steam to diesel and this is reflected in this list.


One has to start with the classics.


The Clyde Passenger Steamer. Its Rise & Progress During the 19th Century from the ‘Comet’ of 1812 to the ‘King Edward’ of 1901. (ISBN:0907590195)
WILLIAMSON, Capt. James.

Captain James Williamson was manager of the Caledonian Steam Packet from its founding in 1889 - this is a list and description of all Clyde steamers in this time period.    Originally published 1904 - reprinted 1987.   Not cheap - £20 + from ABEbooks.

Echoes Of Old Clyde Paddle Wheels: the First Sixty Years from the Comet of 1812 (ISBN:1871048257)
McQueen, Andrew

Originally published 1920's and reprinted c2001.   Essays on various aspects of the earlier Clyde steamers.


Clyde River Steamers, 1872-1922 (ISBN:1871048249)
Andrew McQueen

Originally published 1922  as "Clyde River steamers of the last 50 years" - a brief description of each Clyde steamer in service in that period

The following histories are all by G E Langmuir & C L D Duckworth - they contain details of each vessel and extensive fleet lists.  The originals date from the 1930's but all have been published in at least two editions and suitably updated. Apart from the Clyde and Bristol Channel areas, most of the paddlers described were of the nineteenth century.

Clyde River and other steamers - fleets which became part of British Railways and their predecessors.

Railway and other steamers.  Railway owned steamers - largely cross channel, Irish Sea etc.

West Highland steamers.  David MacBrayne and predecessors.

Clyde and other coastal steamers.   Mostly the companies that made up Coast Lines including Burns line, Laird line, Belfast SSC.  (Many of the fleet lists in the first edition (1939) were omitted from the second (1977 ish) to save space - so I had to buy both!)

West Coast steamers. Isle of Man Steam Packet, Mersey ferries, P & A Campbell, Liverpool & North Wales SSC


WEST COUNTRY PASSENGER STEAMERS.
Farr, Grahame.:
Bristol channel, Cornwall and Devon.   Includes packet (Irish, Scilly Isles etc) and excursion services.    Quite good introduction to Campbell's Bristol Channel paddlers.   2 editions 1956 and 1967, which is much enlarged.


South Coast Pleasure Steamers
Thornton, E. C. B.
Excursion vessels from Plymouth to Eastbourne. Very good - 99% paddler.

Thames Coast Pleasure Steamers.
Thornton, E.C.B.:
Excursion vessels on the Thames 98% paddler.   A fairly thin papareback with very fine print but quite a lot of detail.   Hard to find.

Past and Present Steamers of North Wales
F. C. Thornley
Published 1952 & 1962.    

Steamers of the Thames and Medway (ISBN:1871814464)
Burtt, Frank
Reprinted 1997 from 1949.   Covers the earlier years, which Thornton's book doesn't.

CROSS-CHANNEL AND COASTAL PADDLE STEAMERS
Burtt, Frank:
1937.   100% paddler as he ignores screw steamers altogether. Good on some companies but not a complete history.


Northwards By Sea (ISBN:0904505367)
Donaldson, Gordon
Services to Orkney & Shetland. Paddlers finished here before 1900.   Several editions - latest 1978, I think



I refer to the above as classics, primarily because the first edition of each was published before I started buying shipping books.    Between them (with some overlap) the give a very good history of the vast majority of passenger services around the British Isles - with the surprising exception of the East Coast whose coverage is very patchy.


More to come


Regards David

Offline Eddy Matthews

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"Must have" books
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2005, 06:45:03 AM »
A superb start David - My god you've been busy today, certainly making up for the time you've been offline!

Just a quck question that sprung to mind when reading your list - Maybe you or someone else can answer it.... When a book is reprinted (and often updated), does it keep the same ISBN number as the original, or is a new one issued for each release?
~ Never, ever, argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience ~

Offline Red_Hamish

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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2005, 07:15:10 AM »
Hello all, Eddy raised an interesting point and with a little delving the ISBN system is amazing. If you want to find out a little more then may I suggest this site http://www.isbn.org/standards/home/isbn/about_information_standards.asp

It does't answer the question directly but it would NOT appear that every book when created or re-printed  is given a unique identifier.

This part is extracted from the ISBN org website FAQ's on

http://www.isbn-international.org/en/manual.html

Q: I am revising a book. Does it require a new ISBN?
A: A (substantial) change of text requires a new ISBN, and if revisions have been made of the title page or its reverse should state that the book is a revised edition, and the new ISBN should be printed there.

Q: Does a reprint without change of text, or binding require a new ISBN?
A: No. The original number must be retained, provided the publisher remains the same.

Q: I would like to issue a new ISBN for marketing reasons. Is this permissible?
A: No. There is no change of text, format or binding which would justify a new ISBN.


Hope this helps

cheers

Jim
Enjoy life and the world of Radio Control Model Boating at  www.edinburghmodelboatclub.org.uk There is also www.shetland.org for live webcams to see the good life.

Offline Eddy Matthews

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"Must have" books
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2005, 07:29:47 AM »
Thanks for that Jim, much appreciated.... It looks like ISBN numbers are one of those "dodgy" areas that aren't really clear - Just how many changes to the text is considered substantial before a new ISBN can be issued?

What's the betting that some lawyer somewhere got involved with the ISBN rules and regulations? ;-)
~ Never, ever, argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience ~

Waverley

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"Must have" books
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2005, 07:52:33 AM »
Hi all  

More paddle oriented books - mostly Clyde and Western Isles. This seems to be by far the best covered area - maybe because we had the best ships and the finest scenery.

The Golden Years of the Clyde Steamers (1889-1914). (ISBN:0859765512)
PATERSON, Alan J. S.  

The Victorian Summer of the Clyde Steamers (1864 - 1888) (ISBN:0715356305)
Paterson, Alan J S
These two were published as hardbacks in the 1970's and reprinted as paperbacks in 2001.   Between them they provide a good general overview of the Clyde when at its peak.

CLASSIC SCOTTISH PADDLE STEAMERS (ISBN:0715383353)
PATERSON, ALAN J S:
Illustrated biographies of 12 famous paddlers of the 19th and 20th centuries: Iona; Chancellor; Meg Merrilies; Grenadier; Lucy Ashton; Duchess of Hamilton; Neptune; Waverley; Duchess of Fife; Eagle III; Prince Edward; Jeannie Deans.  

Can't comment on this one - although I'm watching a copy on ebay right now.

THE CLYDE PASSENGER STEAMERS (ISBN:090695505X)
DAVIES KENNETH
I wasn't very impressed with this & haven't bothered to replace my lost copy (it will have to be VERY cheap on ebay).  Provides a list and description of all Clyde steamers from COMET onwards, but I suspect most (or all) the information came from books in the previous post.

THE CALEDONIAN STEAM PACKET CO. LIMITED, an illustrated history
MacArthur, Iain C.
Published 1971, scarce, expensive and well worth it. Its an excellent history of the CSP from 1889 to 1969 with much on its competitors as well. Well written, contains much detail.

Two paperbacks are quite nice:

Steamers of the Clyde
George Stromier, Illustrated by John Nicholson

Brief text describes the rather nice paintings by John Nicholson.

Colour on the Clyde or Memories of the Clyde Steamers
Somerville, Cameron

Clyde steamer reminiscences from before the first world war.

Ian McCrorie is the author of numerous books and booklets.  They vary from very detailed publications for the Clyde River Steamer Club on specific aspects of the Clyde (eg PS Caledonia, the Millport Route - these are VERY hard to find and usually horribly expensive) to "overview" books aimed at the general public.   Two very nice, well illustrated ones are

CLYDE PLEASURE STEAMERS, AN ILLUSTRATED HISTORY (ISBN:1869850009)
McCRORIE, IAN
Steamers of the Highlands and Islands: An Illustrated History (ISBN:1869850017)
McCrorie, Ian

These are paperbacks with each page of text facing a full page colour illustration, including colour slides of PS Columba and PS Iona taken in 1935 or before, copies of prints and postcards as well as more modern pictures.   The text in each case provides a good overview history.

CLYDE PIERS A PICTORIAL RECORD (ISBN:0950068756)
McCrorie, Ian & Monteith, Joy.
Brief history of each of our many piers -most of the illustrations include one of the paddlers that used them.

Royal Road to the Isles: 150 Years of MacBrayne Shipping (ISBN:0950716618)
McCrorie, Ian
Published 2001 189pp - got outbid on ebay last week for this but want it - it should be good.

Dunoon Pier : A Celebration (ISBN:1874640688)
McCrorie, Ian
Published 1997 - not seen it but it may well include a good history of upper Clyde services.

Forum member Alistair Deayton has written a number of books on the Clyde area - I cannot comment as have not seen any of them (maybe Alistair would like to give himself a plug?) so do not know the balance between text/illustration.  The books are:

Steam Ships of Europe : An Illustrated Guide to Veteran Passenger Vessels (ISBN:0851774784)
Caledonian Steam Packet Company Ltd (ISBN:0752423819)
Orkney and Shetland Steamers (ISBN:0752423770)
Steamers of the Clyde NB and LNER (ISBN:0752421077)
Glasgow and South Western and Other Steamers (ISBN:0752427733)
Steamers of the Clyde: The White Funnel Fleet (ISBN:0752428756)
MACBRAYNE STEAMERS (ISBN:0752423622)
SCOTTISH LOCH & CANAL STEAMERS (ISBN:0752431706)

Finally from the Clyde there is this anomally:

CLYDE COAST PLEASURE STEAMERS
Thornton, E.C.B.

Its only a 32 page paperback - and must be very superficial - after the work he put into "South Coast Pleasure Steamers" this seems a bit odd


Paddle steamers also worked on the Forth and Tay estuaries on the East Coast - some acquired second hand from the Clyde.

The standard work is
Steamers of the Forth (ISBN:071537155X)
Brodie, Ian

This is a nice detailed hardback.

There is also
STEAMERS OF THE TAY (ISBN:1840332492)
BRODIE, IAN
This is a 64pp paperback with comprising photographs with reasonable captions.

Somewhat confusingly, Mr Brodie has recently authored two more books, which appear to be in the same formt as "Steamers of the Tay"

STEAMERS OF THE FORTH: Volume 1: Ferry Crossings And River Sailings (ISBN:1840333073)
STEAMERS OF THE FORTH: Volume 2; Firth Services and Excursions (ISBN:1840333081)
Whether these supercede or supplement his original work are beyond my ken, but a less confusing title would have been helpful.


So that's it for Scotland - except where noted I own (or have owned) everything on these two lists.   I can't do England in the same detail as my collection has too many gaps.

This may set the ball rolling - if someone can do the same for Australia, the USA, Canada or mainland Europe (in any language) or elsewhere it would be much appreciated.  

Regards

David




[/b]

Waverley

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"Must have" books
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2005, 07:58:48 AM »
Hi Eddy don't know about IBSN's - I've included them where I could but a lot of stuff on these lists dates from the pre-IBSN era.

There should be enough info above to do a search in ABEbooks - I find that author's surname and a couple of keywords from the title are usually enough to find several hits - (eg author "thornton" keyword "south coast".


Don't do a search on "steamboat" - unless you want to be offered 500 copies of the work of fiction "Steamboat Gothic"

Regards - David getting typer's cramp

Offline AlistairD

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"Must have" books
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2005, 08:25:25 AM »
THE CLYDE PASSENGER STEAMERS  (ISBN:090695505X)
DAVIES KENNETH
I wasn't very impressed with  this & haven't bothered to replace my lost copy (it will have to be VERY  cheap on ebay). Provides a list and description of all Clyde steamers from COMET  onwards, but I suspect most (or all) the information came from books in the  previous post.
  
 This has a lot of inaccuracies, all facts shoiuld  be double-checked, e.g. MacBraynes CHEVALIER of 1966 also has an entry for 1886,  but it is the only complete, or almost com plete chronological list of  Clyde steamers
  
 Speaking of Inaccurate books, you have not mentioned the Dunan  Haws Merchant Fleet title on British Railway Steamers - Scotland, profiles data  and chronological histoires on all Scottish-railway-owned steamers, including,  as far as I recall, MacBryne ones from the timae after 1928 when MacHrayne was  part-owned by the LMSR
 

.

Forum member Alistair  Deayton has written a number of books on the Clyde area - I cannot  comment as have not seen any of them (maybe Alistair would like to give himself  a plug?) so do not know the balance between text/illustration. The books  are:
  
 They are all books full of photos with extended  captions. £12.99 Each. Email me at alistair@deayton.frreserve.co.uk (alistair@deayton.frreserve.co.uk)  if you are interested in buying any or all of them

Steam Ships of Europe : An Illustrated Guide to  Veteran Passenger Vessels (ISBN:0851774784) Out of prinbt  for many years, new edition covering the whole world coming next  year
 
Caledonian Steam Packet Company Ltd  (ISBN:0752423819)
Orkney and Shetland  Steamers (ISBN:0752423770)
Steamers  of the Clyde NB and LNER (ISBN:0752421077)
Glasgow and South Western and Other Steamers  (ISBN:0752427733)
Steamers of the  Clyde: The White Funnel Fleet (ISBN:0752428756)
MACBRAYNE STEAMERS (ISBN:0752423622)
SCOTTISH LOCH & CANAL STEAMERS  (ISBN:0752431706)
 
The standard work is
Steamers of the  Forth (ISBN:071537155X)
Brodie, Ian

This is a nice detailed  hardback.

There is also
STEAMERS OF  THE TAY (ISBN:1840332492)
BRODIE, IAN
This is a 64pp paperback  with comprising photographs with reasonable captions.

Somewhat  confusingly, Mr Brodie has recently authored two more books, which appear to be  in the same formt as "Steamers of the Tay"

STEAMERS OF THE FORTH: Volume 1: Ferry Crossings And  River Sailings (ISBN:1840333073)
STEAMERS OF THE FORTH: Volume 2; Firth Services and  Excursions (ISBN:1840333081)
Whether these supercede or supplement  his original work are beyond my ken, but a less confusing title would have been  helpful.
  
 These are picture books with very detailed  captions

Alistair
Alistair Deayton
Paisley
Scotland

Offline AlistairD

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"Must have" books
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2005, 08:27:15 AM »
So that's it for Scotland - except where noted I own (or have owned)  everything on these two lists. I can't do England in the same detail as my  collection has too many gaps.

This may set the ball rolling - if someone  can do the same for Australia, the USA, Canada or mainland Europe (in any  language) or elsewhere it would be much appreciated.

I have  a lot of books for these areas, but have not the time at the moment to list  them
  
 Alistair
Alistair Deayton
Paisley
Scotland

 

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