What is the best solution for a Boiler

[steamboatmodel]

I have had a Wilesco boiler fail on me it was the one from there D48 set, which is butane fired. I developed a pinhole leak on the bottom of the shell, which extinguished the flame. I was able to repair it using a silver bearing solder, and it held under a hydro test to 60psi. I have had similar problems with Mamod boilers, and other "Toy Boilers".
I did today find the following under Industry Guide to Canadian Safety Requirements for Children's Toys and Related Products, 2006
"Toy steam engine boilers must be equipped with an appropriate safety valve and they must be able to withstand pressures of at least three times the operating pressure of the boiler in order to protect against accidental rupturing."
I still do run and show my toy steam engine sets that have brass boilers, but I do a very thorough inspection before I exhibit them.
Any new boilers I make I use copper and have been testing to twice working pressure (It will now be three times working pressure), Evan though until today I thought they were exempt.
http://www.tssa.org/regulated/boilers/boilersSafety.asp?loc3=act
Boilers and Pressure Vessel Regulation (O.Reg. #220/01)
Application
2. (1) This Regulation applies to the design, construction, maintenance, use, operation, repair and service of boilers, pressure vessels and
piping. O. Reg. 220/01, s. 2 (1).
(2) This Regulation does not apply to,

(c) a boiler having a heating surface of 10 square feet (0.93 square metres) or less;
The above are what I have found to apply in the Province of Ontario Canada, you need to check the Laws in your own area.

Most of the published designs for boilers should have no problems passing a three times pressure test.
Regards,
Gerald
PS I did talk to a fellow who had worked for one of the "Toy Boiler" companies and asked him about why they use brass, he replied that it was mostly cosmetic and a pretty boiler sold better, he also was astonished that I had been running the one boiler for over ten years every summer. He said they only expect them to last three years.

[kno3]

Stuart,

Thanks for providing some facts. Are those club rules or governmental regulations?

Any boiler used above its designed pressure is inherently dangerous, be it made of copper, brass,  or tin cans. As anyone can read above, I have said that brass boilers should be used within their designed limits and respecting current regulations. That means pressures they can safely withstand, 1 bar for instance.

Unfortunately copper is very soft, so it needs to be much thicker than brass or other metals to be stiff enough for use in a boiler, which makes the boiler heavy. That can be a problem if you want a boiler of reasonable water capacity for a small boat.

I'd like to know more about your Wilesco boiler that exploded (because I own one too and would like to avoid any problems). Was it the soft soldered variety, how was it heated, what was its condition? How exactly did it explode? Did it rip apart, parts flying around, or did it develop leaks?

[Stuart Badger]

It was soft soldered on a stationary engine. The bottom of the boiler ruptured and it unwrapped blowing one end off. It was heated with meth tablets. I had my back to it at the time - even at the what must have been low pressure the damage to surrounding objects was considerable. The Facts I gave are EU Government Law - not club rules.

Stuart

[crash93]

You say in post 4 that you are using a standard boiler , Have you modified it in any way and are you using the supplied heating system , or using it in a way it was not designed .

when you have been using steam for a bit longer you may appreciate the dangers involved. I think you will need to see one bury a chunk of brass in someone to believe what is being said to you.

Peter

[kno3]

It was soft soldered on a stationary engine. The bottom of the boiler ruptured and it unwrapped blowing one end off. It was heated with meth tablets. I had my back to it at the time - even at the what must have been low pressure the damage to surrounding objects was considerable. The Facts I gave are EU Government Law - not club rules.

Stuart

Stuart,
Were you able to determine what exactly caused the failure and if the safety valve was in good working order? As far as I know Wilesco safety valves are set at about 1 bar, was yours different?

Peter,
Whose post 4 do you mean? Please be more specific.

[crash93]

...
I will give you the first main bit of advice. Totally forget about the brass boiler concept. The material is just too unstable for public use.

John

Come on, there are several steam engine makers (German: Regner, Wilesco; Japanese: Saito; and maybe others) who use brass boilers and they are perfectly safe AND legal.
I understand if one argues that copper has certain advantages over brass in certain applications, but dismissing brass completely as a boiler material is an unnecessary exaggeration.

Brass boilers can usually be made lighter than most copper boilers, which is important if you want to build a small model boat. That's why I like Saito boilers, for instance: they are very light for their size.
Besides, they even mix brass and copper, using copper for parts like fire tubes, which are subjected to the highest temperatures, and brass for less stressed parts.

If one designs a boiler well and uses it within it's specified pressure range, with adequate safety valves, the probability of something going wrong is remote.

this post 4,or reply 4 etc again are your boilers standard or have the been altered in any way

Peter

[kno3]

One boiler I modified by silver soldering threads for a water gauge (it didn't have one). The others are still as the factory made them.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Gents.....in a Court of Law.....any admission "I modified by silver soldering threads for a water gauge" could be the indictment

The constructive comments as offered by both bogstandard & Stuart are simply as such ....[by courtesy of EU Regulations]  & on behalf of our PD membership I thank them both for their candid comments - Derek 

[kno3]

In a court of law, for what reason?
If modifying a boiler gets you in trouble with the law, what are all the people who are building their own going to do?

[crash93]

so you are using standard, as supplied boiler heaters.?

Peter

[kno3]

For the modified one, yes. It's an alcohol blow-lamp type burner.

[crash93]

So you are putting more heat in to it than it was designed to have , so all the talk about these boilers are tested and have been used for years without a problem goes out of the window, so its a home modified boiler that you have put more heat in to , so you know more than the clever people at Regner, Wilesco; Japanese: Saito; and maybe others, you do know that the more heat you put in the steam pressure goes up, and having read that you have no way of testing your safety valve all I can say is ..I hope you are well insured......


Peter

Crash93

[kno3]

Please read again what I wrote above.
You asked: "so you are using standard, as supplied boiler heaters.?"
I answered: "For the modified one, yes. It's an alcohol blow-lamp type burner."

If this is not clear enough for you, I'll explain it again: I use the original burner that came with the boiler, made by the same manufacturer.

By the way, who said I have no way of testing my safety valve? Please don't attribute to me comments I have never made.
I always take care not to exceed the maximum pressure set by the manufacturer and use appropriate safety valves on all boilers.

[crash93]

Then you had better read this some one has built a boat the same as yours and is using your name
Reply #54
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=11688.50

It burns for about 30 minutes on a full tank. Here's a test. It gives off more heat to the boiler than my other burner

using a burner from another boiler is a modification.cutting it up and putting extra bits in is also a modification

so if it was not you I would get on to martin, anyway its not worth trying to discuss this any further

Crash93

[kno3]

You're talking about 2 different boilers.

The topic you are referring to is about another boiler, a Wilesco D49, where I indeed use a 3rd party alcohol burner, still with alcohol, but with wicks.

The boiler I said I modified by adding a water gauge is a Saito, and I'm using it with its original blow-lamp alcohol burner.
Yes, I modify boilers, and as in the case of this Saito, I did it to improve its safety.