Placement of model steam engine in a paddle ship

[kno3]

Hello!

What is the preferred arrangement for a model steam engine and boiler in a paddlewheel ship?
Boiler forward and engine aft, or engine forward?
Would a diagonal engine's cylinders be placed in front of the paddlewheels axle (towards the bow) or behind?

[Stuart Badger]

The short answer is AS LOW AS POSSIBLE! Seriously though - diagonal engines were usually astern of the paddle shaft. Some tugs etc had their engine centre line on the paddle shaft. The main problem in a model is NOT the engine, frankly it can go wherever is convenient as regards drive, and leveling the boat in the water etc.

The problem with a model paddler is usually the boiler - it's difficult to get down low and it's full of a very heavy substance that moves around - water!

Frankly the best solution is the one that works best for your particular model in terms of space and convenience - but keep it as LOW as possible.

Hope this helps

Stuart

[mjt60a]

I haven't made a live steam model yet but I think if I did, the first thing I'd have to think about would be where the heat comes out of the boiler, I think I'd want it directly under the funnel!
the engine could be connected by chains/pulleys etc, to the paddlleshaft - even if it ends up being two short lengths with part of the boiler between them.
Actually this is something I've thought a bit about as my only experience of live steam has been 'mamod' and 'wilesco' engines.... boilers I've seen in models usually have a flue from the heat source but the wilesco just has vents all round the boiler, I wondered how that is dealt with in, say, the graupner glasgow which has an identical power plant as an optional extra.....

[Stuart Badger]

Mike is quite right. Heat is always a consideration. I've attached a picture of the installation for my model of Old Trafford. As you can see I had to crank the chimney to ensure it cleared any obstructions in the funnel.

Hope this helps

Stuart

[kno3]

Thanks guys!

Stuart, that is a very impressive steamboat. But why the big gear reduction? Those Puffin engines should be quite powerful.

However, I should mention that I'm planning to have the engine drive the paddles directly.
I'll build the hull around the steam plant.

[Stuart Badger]

Of course the engines are powerful enough without gearing - a steam engine has maximum torque at zero revs. BUT gearing the paddles means that you have much more controlability, speed transititions are smoother and more gradual and at maximum speed the wheels are not turning at a ridiculous speed.

Stuart

[R.G.Y.]

If the paddles revolve to fast the paddle boxes just fill with water. so gear down at least 3to1. I hope I have attached a photo of my paddle steamers interior.
If not I will post one in the photo albums. You will see the battries mounted on a servo to control any listing due to wind.

[kno3]

Thanks. What kind of paddlewheels are those, kit or scratch-built?

[andy]

Hi,

you asked the position of engine and boiler in a ship, not in a model paddler- which will be a result of the original ship, I think.

As I recognized, the Sulzer and Escher Wyss paddlers on the european lakes had the engine in front of the wheels (like front wheel driven) and the boiler behind. This I think gives not so nice proportions like the bavarian MAFFEI concept with the boiler in front an the engine behind the paddle shaft. This means the funnel standing in front of the shaft, which looks more nice than behind. Compare the pics of these paddler systems!

The paddlers on the northern Germany on the Rriver Elbe have oscillating engine, more weak constructions, with a position directly under the shaft. Such a system only was possible with a big depth of the hull (tugs!) or in such special ships like on the river Elbe, but I do not know why they did it, because their hulls were flat, too. But engines weak and compact.

my built of the 2 Maffei Steamers DIESSEN (look avatar) and propelled steamer SCHONDORF both show in the 1/20 scale model, that the concept with engine behind shaft will show much weight in the rear. But can be balanced by the position of batteries and radiocontrol in the front.

But sulzer /Escher Wyss as well as Maffei sometimes changed their System on command of the customer, so none of these companies made paddlers with the same arrengment only

I prefer nice arrangements, if technical possible.

Link Sulzer built PS URI
http://www.zoonar.de/appgen/?cl=zoonar&cp=resource&cmd=show_picture&res_id=392825

Link Maffei built DIESSEN (Model Andreas Heene)
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_39sZkh7qMxA/R_-sdlqIdAI/AAAAAAAAAT0/t4BvCsVab9M/IMG_0030.jpg



Andreas

[Hankwilliams]

Hi Andy,

complementary to position and type of engine in paddlesteamers:

The oscillating engines were common in central Europa until the end of 19. century.

As you write, this engines are compact, but they must be not weak, for example the Danube steamer "Tudor Vladimirescu" is driven by a Escher Wyss oscillating engine (build 1854 and still in use!) is of about 600 hp. The Austrian Danube steamer "Hebe" (550 hp) from 1905 as I know was the last paddler build with this engine type - it became difficult to seal the moving cylinders when  steam pressure increased in the last decades paddlers were built.

For my impression, the "Gisela" of Ammersee was one of the most elegant paddlers - together with some still maintained ships on lake Geneve.


Tom

[andy]

Yes. GISELA, later named AUGSBURG was a very nice ship, but wrecked in the sixties, only because the windows and some parts of the deck werde a little bit rotted. NO problem in their mechanics!

Andreas

[R.G.Y.]

Thanks. What kind of paddlewheels are those, kit or scratch-built?

   kno3 my paddle wheels are scratch built, of aluminium, with rivets made from gimp pins. (small nails with flat heads) The brass pair I made wear to heavy. The model sails on a scale draft only 1- 3/4 inches. R.G.Y.   

[Alan Haisley]

I'd think that the best placement for the boiler would be on the center of buoyancy. The engine could be either fore or aft of that on the centerline.

[andy]

Hi RGY

my modell of the DIESSEN has the weels stars made of brass and the paddles of aluminium. Model rus fine, especially because the weight of the wheels will give the diagonal engine some drive like a flywheel, the engine has no gear and is fitted as direct drive. However, I am thinking about a refabrication with laser cutted paddlewheels of aluminium in the next years, only to bring weight to its needed minimum.
stability of the modell was fine from the first beginning, (diagonal engine and big horizontal boiler) I only had to fit about 100 grams to one side for balancing.

Andreas

[kno3]

Andy, I would need some paddle wheels too, where would you get yours made?