PS Waverley (The current one!)

[ancoaster78]

Thanks guys for the continued input, lots to think about still, but it all helps!

Sandy, I have the 'Legend Reborn' book and it is certainly a valuable source, but not the other, do you know if it is still available, I thought I had all the books there were on that ship, but hadn't heard of that one!

Cheers!

[sandystrone]

Andy
I bought the book "Birth of a legend" on board WAVERLEY  a few years back. I don't know if its still available, maybe Walter Snowdon could tell you, as he works in WAVERLEY's shop some of the time, also he's a member of the PSPS            Sandy

[mjt60a]

I can't help wondering if the shape of the hull has anything to do with this queston, in a couple of books I have (paddlesteamers in camera and glory days) are pics of Mercury and Crested Eagle on the slipway before launching and the side of the hull goes from vertical to what looks like about 30-35 degrees then vertical again... see this balsa mock-up I made below,...
 for a strip of plating (or a succession of rectangular plates) to appear equal in height when viewed from the side, it'd have to be wider at point B wouldn't it? and it won't necessarily mean there's any difference in headroom inside the ship,
..or am I way off the mark...

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's....Mick ...is this what you are questioning?..............

http://www.vacantisw.com/bplates.htm

Derek

[ancoaster78]

Mick, Derek, thats not way off the mark at all, this is deffinatly part of the question, the sloping sides is called 'Flare', and I have this calcualted pretty well from the hull lines drawings, and your point is completly right about it having to get wider because of it, it deffinatly has to do that or the run of plates it would appear to get much narrower, as on some ships.

With Waverley that strake of plating appears parallel, or very close to parallel, so it must get wider because of the flare, but I havn't yet reached a deffinative conclusion if the height of that run of plates returns to the same at the stem as it is on the flat sided part of the hull amidships, or if a little narrower, it seems more common among the Waverleys peers to decrease towards the bow, and the Jeanie Deans very obviously does so, but if that is the case on Waverley its a much smaller decrease.

I have drawn up approrimations of both, and can make both options work pretty well, but if it is parallel, then I would need to make the height of the bow slightly higher than I have currently calculated it to be or I can't fit all the plate runs in, I have solid information for most of the lower strakes, and am confident they are right, so its either a narrowing plate or a higher bow!

Either way, its only a small difference, unfortunatly however I'm a details nut so will only make the final desicion after all possible leads have been followed, it does rather drag out the project thoo!!!!

Will keep you all posted, Cheers!

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's....Andy....my lofting skills are limited...but if you have true end elevation view of the vessel frames [with even spacing] ...& a plan view.....you can create the water lines & from this & work backwards & develop the hull expansion plates in flat plane

Naturall in the end elevation view....one half is the view on the bow & the other half is the view on the stern

I now understand your question & quandry.......if the hull plating looks to be of even height although rising toward the bow or stern when viewed in the elevation view...naturally are not [WYSIWYG] as the hull shear or tumble home dictate the actual profile of the plates

There have been a number of articles written of medi-evil vessel boat building where the master would arrive at the build site each morning & convey orders, directions & dimensions of the build requirement for the day.... then repeat the next lesson the next morning until the vessel was complete....no plans existed apart from the plan the mind of the  master....

This [lofting]... is certainly a past & near lost skill  .... remember years ago....all vessels were set out in many sub component full scale lines drawn in the loft...today a good PC design package NaviCAD  can cost $14 thousand ...yes $14K AUD.....Derek

[alfjones]

Hi Everybody

Another random question from me i'm afraid, if anyone has a lead to help me find the answer, I would be very grateful!

For sometime now, as some of you know, I have been slowly working on a range of research projects resulting in a collection of plans being drawn up in pretty high accuracy for future, and current modelling projects.

Several of you have already helped me with my Jeanie Deans and P&A Campbells projects, now it is the time of my Waverley one! I thought this drawing had been pretty much finished, as the information I had gathered from various sources is pretty extensive, and the drawing at 1:32 scale on CAD has after much persuasion really started to take shape very well, however I got to working on the run of the various strakes of plating forming the shell of the hull, and became a little confused with the bow....

....to cut a loooong story short, does anyone out there have:

A, A drawing or information concerning the ships stem and stern which would give the height of the prom deck (or main deck for that matter as the are parallel on the centre line) above the baseline at extream stem and stern, or at a defined place near either?

B, A drawing or information which gives the amount of sheer forward and aft so that the above could be calulated?

C, A drawing or information which would show wether the top stake of plating, the one painted offwhite with the maindeck windows in it, wether it gets marginally shallower/less tall/deep towards the bow, as the Jeanie Deans does, but less extream, of wether it is parallel as the Medway Queen is, and as would generally be assumed from looking at the ship casually without looking into it, I have confirmed that all the other strakes do get narrower towards the bow, including the thin one with the yellow stripes on it, so i am suspicious....!

I have spent a great deal of time taking measurements off drawings, to try to get this precise, but seem to come out with a different answer each time, and stared at the fotos tryin to work out point C till my eyes go blurred!!!!

Due to the very satisfactory results of the rest of the drawing, I am keen to get the bow and stern just right, any thoughts or leads gratefully received!

Cheers, Andy

Hi Andy
I recently was tracking down information on a PS called PS St Tudno built in 1891 at Fairfield ship building and engineering yard on the Clyde. I contacted the Mitchell Library Glasgow. I was amazed to find that they had some original drawings for the hull and a general arrangement of the engine and boiler room.  They were able to send me copies of these for a fee. So contact them they may have just what you are looking for.

[ancoaster78]

Hey Alf,

Thanks for the suggestion, it was a good one, my current build project 'Jeanie Deans' was built by Fairfields, and the plans I have for that came from the Mitchell Library, excellent service, very good set of plans, GA, Hull Lines, Sponson Plans, and some deck details, couldn't ask for more! Sadly, they don't have Waverley  though. I got the plans I for that elsewhere, but although I have a lot of info for Waverely, not quite enuff! Will keep searching till i've got it perfect!

Are you planning to build St Tudno? That would certainly make an interesting model....

Cheers, Andrew

[ancoaster78]

Hi All,

Sitting here on a thankfully quiet night shift looking into this plateing issue some more, have been studying the Shell Expansion drawing for Waverley and the GA posted by Robert McLuckie on here, and it seems to me that both support my theory of that top strake, the cream painted one, getting slightly narrower towards the bow.

I had previously distrusted the Shell Expansion as those things are complex to read and i'm not expert, self taught but with help from the ships engineers, however, I was looking at that GA Robert posted and decided to take some measurements off it, and it really looks like that strake, which is maked on the plan gets narrower as it goes forward. The hard copy I previously had of the GAis only A3 sized as so I considered it too small to trust, but thanks to Robert could this be the end of my problem and maybe prove my reading of the Shell Expansion correct?

I wondering if someone would be kind enough take a couple of measurements off that GA drawing to double check me, I believe it measured parallel for most of the length just narrowing towards the bow, It should be obvious at a glance what is needed, a check of the vertical distance between the top edge of the hull plating and the line on the drawing representing the plating line just below the windows.

Would be really grateful to have someone double check me on this and make sure its not just the bleary eyes at this time of the morning misleading me into seeing what I want to! After all this time to potentially have the answer staring me in the face seems too good to be true! To be able to proceed at least fairly confident I'm on the right track after all this time would be great....many thanks in anticipation!

Cheers and a Merry Christmas Eve to you all 

[Walter Snowdon]

Hi Folks, sorry I missed the start of this thread. As far as I know, Birth of a Legend is still available. Try ringing the waverleys Glasgow office and if they have one they will send it.
  now onto plating.  Rectangular  plating with paralel lines is an optical illusion Unless the hull is a modern "BOX BOAT" you will find very few parallels.  Prioe to computers shipbuilders built what was known as a" Plating half model" hull onto which the plating and joints were very carefully drawn. From this, all the angles and measurements were carefully taken and transferred to a larger flat plan. (A bit like taking a globe of the earth and flattening it).from this, each individual plate was cut and precisely measured. When I was a boy in the1940s I used to be taken into the shipyards at Sunderland and I couldnt get my head round the complex compound cuves that could be made from flat sheets of metal, not one of which looked square! If you are ever in a maritime museum, look for a very plain half model, usualy painted a pale colour and be amazed at the masses of lnes, numbers and angles marked on it in beautifuly small writing in indian ink. Rregards, Walter