Want to build a sternwheeler

[Bernd]

Hi PD's,

I've been digging in the Live Steam archives gathering info for building a real live steam sternwheeler using a pitman arm. I see that is a rare thing to find. I see that Bill Hudson is on the same track. I've seen the vid of an engine that was at a show that somebody here had posted. I've done a bit of Googleing and seem to come up short finding anything.

I would like to scratch build the super structure not following any prototype. I just what something that looks close. I'm more interested in operating it. I have a plastic kit that was put out by "The Lindberg Line" many years ago. It's a model of a stern wheel river tug called Southern Belle. it's a plastic model with a electric motor to power it. I never put it together. I'll have to take a pic of the box and post it later. I'm thinking of scaling this up to a size that will hold a steam engine. The hull is almost 9" long and a little over 3" wide.

I have Elmer Verburg's book and plan on building, what he calls the Demo Engine. It is supposed to resemble a paddle wheel engine using a cam to drive the valve gear. There is no way of reversing the engine though.

I'll get a couple of pics of the plastic boat and post next time I'm on.

I see from rumaging around here I cam across a few couple of familar faces.
I'd like to say high to a very familar face.  HI Bogs

Regards,
Bernd

[Dave_Sohlstrom]

Bernd

I am in the process of gathering information to build a model of the stern wheel tug Portland. I am lucky enough to have the real vessel right here in Portland Oregon not to far from where I live and I was able to get aboard her while she was in dry dock a couple of weeks ago. I got a lot of pictures of her hull, paddle wheel and rudders plus lots of engine pics. I also was able to make copies of the plans for the main engine. It is 26" bore 9 foot stroke 900 hp. The model will be just shy of 7 feet long and close to 19" beam.
I am finding that scaling things down to 3/8" to the foot is a real challenge. If you do a search in the forum for Portland you will find several pictures that both Bill and I have posted.
I will be casting all the engine parts in bronze with my home foundry because there are no long stroke cylinder casting available that I know of.

If you have any questions let me know and I will try and get an answer.

Dave

[Bernd]

If you have any questions let me know and I will try and get an answer.

Dave

You may have opened a can of worms with that statement. I am interested in the engines. I've seen various steam engines before but nothing like what is used to power these stern wheelers. I would like to be kept in the loop on your project.

I like scratchbuilding things so that's why I'm going to work off of the plastic model I have, but would like to power it by steam with such engines as you are designing. My Dad is also into building steam and engines and boats. He's 81 years young. He's interested in building the "Zulu" and powering it by steam.

So if you can keep me in the loop I'd be very happy. Thanks very much.

Regards,
Bernd

[Bernd]

Dave,

Just went back and searched on your Portland suggestion. I already looked at all those pic's. Very nice to see what one of those engines looks like.

In one one of the threads mention was made as to what scale to model in. 3/8"=1'. It was mentioned that it would be hard to work in that scale. Actually I would think it easy since 1/32" = 1".

You and Bill talk about engine plans. Were are these available and can they be purchased anywere. I've searched and haven't found any availability of such plans.

Regards,
Bernd

[Bernd]

I've taken a couple of pics of the plastic model boat that I would like to scale up. As I was setting up for the picture taking I noticed on the side of the box that the model is a 3/16"=1' scale. Half the size of 3/8"=1' scale.

Anyway here are the pics. The first is of the box as the boat would look like on the river.



The second pic is the plastic hull with an 8" digital caliber scale.



The last pick is of the plans as it would look finish assembled.




I plan on scaling this boat up to 3/16"=1' and see what comes out.

Regards,
Bernd

[Dinosaursoupman]

Hello Bernd,

I ran across these plans for a horizontal steam engine. They are for a stationary type engine but the principles can be incorporated into a working engine for your paddler. One thing for sure, you will be exchanging a paddlewheel for the flywheel in the plans. it is a pdf file by the way.

http://www.green-trust.org/junkyardprojects/FreeIC&ECEngines/HorizontalSlide-ValveEngine.pdf

There are a number of plans available in the "Downloads" section under steam engine plans. I don't know what the new minimum for posting is before thes are made available to you, but you should be pretty close. A PM to Eddy may make them available to you also.

Hope this gets you going in the right direction.

Randy

[Bernd]

Hi Randy,

The principals are the same but it's not quite what is used in a stern wheeler. I have several plans for horizontal engines. They could be used with some modifications as you say. Thank you very much for the link.

My interest lies in the use of a prototype engine. I'm more of a steam nut than boat nut. I'm the type that will build the engine first and then add a boat around that engine.

As far as getting into the downloads, I'm not to concerned about that right now as I'm doing some research as to the types of engines used on the stern wheeler (BYW- should that be one word or two? sternwheeler).

Thanks for replying to the thread and trying to help out. Much appreciated.

Regards,
Bernd

[Dave_Sohlstrom]

Bernd

Take a look at this link. http://twaintimes.net/boat/sbindex.html It has a lot of information on steam boats of the Mississippi river you will find it interesting.
You will see by comparing the illistration and the photos of the Portland that they are very different engines.
As stated earlier I do not know of any plan sets for sale for this type of engine. I am working from a set of copies of the original builders plans for the Portland engines. When we compare 3/8"= 1' to 1 1/2"= 1' that the model steam locomotive folks work with these are small engines. It just makes scaling down an engine that is over 10 feet long just for the cylinder casting very interesting. Getting nuts and bolts down small enough means really really small nuts and bolts.

It will get done but I expect it to take quite some time to get it done. I will keep you in the loop.

Dave

[Dinosaursoupman]

Hello Bernd,

Now that I understand better what you are trying to accomplish, you might want to look into the USS CAIRO. If you're not already familiar with her, she was a civil war era gunboat built for use on the Mississippi. She was powered by dual inclined engines that are very similar in construction to a true horizontal. If you look her up on Flickr , you can find numerous pictures of her port engine and pitman. I'm not aware of any plans of her engines though her construction has been well documented since she was raised from the Yazoo River.

Since you aren't looking for an exact engine from an actual boat you may end up just having to use a little artistic license in building your own. It can probably be said that each engine was as unique as the vessel it was put in.

You may wish to look up engine manufacturers of the time since many of the boat yards didn't build there own engines.

Randy

Sternwheeler. I threw that in to see if spell-check would flag it. The version you see is an acceptable way to spell it. It did however flag "spell-check".

[mjt60a]

I've taken a couple of pics of the plastic model boat that I would like to scale up....

I didn't know Lindbergh made a model of that boat, I had seen the 'Krick' model before - http://www.hmbc.nl/cat/southernbelle.php - might have been one at the paddler day! maybe someone has plans that could be enlarged? it looks to be about 3 foot long and could possibly take a small steam engine as it is...

[Bernd]

Bernd

Take a look at this link. http://twaintimes.net/boat/sbindex.html It has a lot of information on steam boats of the Mississippi river you will find it interesting.
You will see by comparing the illistration and the photos of the Portland that they are very different engines.

Very intersting engine. I've got that one stored away. Thank you very much for that link

As stated earlier I do not know of any plan sets for sale for this type of engine. I am working from a set of copies of the original builders plans for the Portland engines. When we compare 3/8"= 1' to 1 1/2"= 1' that the model steam locomotive folks work with these are small engines. It just makes scaling down an engine that is over 10 feet long just for the cylinder casting very interesting. Getting nuts and bolts down small enough means really really small nuts and bolts.

It will get done but I expect it to take quite some time to get it done. I will keep you in the loop.

Dave

I'm starting to see that the engines are as varied as the sternwheelers themselve. I did notice that difference from the Portland. I see where a 10' long cylinder could be 3.75" long on the model. The would be a bit of a challenge to make on the lathe and keep the bore straight.

It'll be interesting to see what you come up with. Appreciate being kept in the loop.

Regards,
Bernd

[Bernd]

Randy,

Going to follow the leads you have given me.

You guys here at PD are great. 

Now to do a bit of research.

Regards,
Bernd

[Bernd]

Mjt60a,

Interesting. The plastic model I have is a 1:64 scale. The boat length is about 9.8" long and around 3.4" beam. The model you showed the link to is 1:72 scale is 39.3" long and has an 11" beam. I looked at that for a while and it still dosen't add up. There should be a bigger difference in size. Going have to sit down with my calculator and have at it later.

Nice link by the way.

Regards,
Bernd

[mjt60a]

I think there may be a mis-print or two in those specs, the model I saw (in a model shop, now closed down) looked to be about 1/32 scale, not 1/72!

[Bernd]

I think there may be a mis-print or two in those specs, the model I saw (in a model shop, now closed down) looked to be about 1/32 scale, not 1/72!

That makes more sense. 1:32 is double of 1:64. That would make the scale 3/8"=1'. Ok now the conversions of length and beam fit better. Thanks mjt60a.

Bernd