PS RYDE

[Channel]

A few pictures of the Ryde at Island Harbour this week. A sad sight - I admire those who are trying to save her but think its too late. I'd like to see her stripped of anything useful and the remainder sold for scrap. No way could she ever leave her current position afloat and in one piece . . . perhaps the current efforts being made should concentrate on saving some of her before it is too late and she is cut up for scrap. I can't see the receiver of the harbour wanting her being around much longer.  

[lenknight]

The photos are very good and clear, albeit shows the deplorable state of the vessel ‘skin wise’, they only but reinforce my opinion of her ‘structural soundness’
The long shot show no problem in her basic alignment at all, means ‘keel’ is but still good, The ‘deck head’ framework, also very substantial. The ‘rivet head’ on hull, are but sound which tells me the basic frame work is also sound. True the plates are in some case beyond saving but can eventually be replaced.
As long as the ‘hull’ is stable, all other components can be replaced!
I have now seen the response by Harris Pye marine engineer, has now confirmed that the majority of the frames of the vessel and the engines are in restorable condition and that they are willing to undertake such a restoration if funding can be obtained.
The Ryde can be floated and moved to a pontoon, after basic repairs, this seems to be a fact!
I now reiterate maybe, but the Ryde, is in a better condition even now, compared to the Medway Queen, when she was taken over in 1985, all is possible if determined enough.
I do not intend to keep bantering on over this subject, as some are determined not to see the possibility. I thank you for recognition of those that are trying at least.
The only debateable points, I am willing to discuses are of course ‘cost’ and ‘practicability’ of this project, this maybe the only point we are agreeable on.
But all is lost if the ‘engine’ is sold to an independent group, after the ‘Trust’ have struggle over many years to securer the future of this vessel., how sad.
So much for our concern over the preservation of Historic Ships for the future.

Len Knight.

[Channel]

Hi Len,

I'd be interested to see what costings have been made by Harris Pye for rebuilding the vessel - an educated guess would be in the region of £10 million with additional costs for removal - these would vary greatly depending on the method used. Personally I see the only way is to section the vessel for reassembling at a yard. I have a background in towing, dredging and salvage work and see that to be the only practicle option that wouldn't cost the earth!

Sadly our marine heritage plays second fiddle to other heritage sectors - certainly within the railway preservation world there are a number of wealthy backers notably Jeremy Hoskings.

If money were endless then I'd say it could happen but in these present times many groups are seeing a reduction in donations. We must also consider other projects that will be looking for more funding in the future - the Medway Queen being a notable candidate along with Maid of the Loch and of course Waverley will be needing another rebuild although not so extensive as her most recent ones in the not too distant future - the boilers have had a mid life re-tube which would suggest they are halfway through their life. Whilst there's interest in the ships at present I wonder about the future. In my late 20's I am one of the few who have become interested in preservation - these ships will only survive in the future if they are commercially viable.

Lets say the Ryde was moved from her current position and work commenced in a shipyard with funding in place how would the MCA class her - I suspect they would regard her as a newbuild and as such she would have to comply with the latest regulations. As we know from the Medway Queen they can put a spanner in the works and not issue a passenger license. Looking towards an operational career I would be surprised if she could be viable on the South Coast only so would have to follow Waverley Excursions model by moving around the coast.

I'd like nothing more than to see the Ryde operational again but don't think funding would be forthcoming within the time frame needed to save her. I suspect the receiver of Island Harbour will want her hanging around too long and any potential new owners certainly won't.

Regards
Chris

[andy]

Hi,

I think the only parts to be used for a "new" ship is about 60% of the framework, engine and wheels, as well as some fittings. the rest has to be built new. And why not.

Most of the rust holes they will find when sandblasting the framework.

And, however, why not to make a new hull with annother framework, als shown in modern ships.
That´s how the replica of the DIESSEN PS was done, but, I regret without steam engine.

Andreas

[Channel]

And, however, why not to make a new hull with annother framework, als shown in modern ships.
That´s how the replica of the DIESSEN PS was done, but, sa I regret without steam engine.

Andreas

Makes sense to me 

[jkemp1]

Hi All,

Many thanks as ever to Len and his succinct comments as ever, also to channel for the pics. Well, yes she dose look in a state as one would expect, but....all doable, saw the Tornado steam locomotive on Top Gear last night, OK ONLY 3 million for a replica, ie your comments re the railways and funding, at this stage we need to save her as is, yes of course there are questions to sort and we are not blind to that, but we have lost far to much of our marine heritage by sitting around talking, oh dear what a pity, its all to difficult. With some great examples of say the VIC 96, Daniel Admason, Waverley, dare I mention Medway Queen? we hope to have a press release very soon, and see what support we can get, we can at least try,

Johnk

[Channel]

Good luck with your efforts, look forward to seeing the press release . .

Chris

[lenknight]

Hello all,
Thanks for your latest input and of course with very debatable points to say the least
I see John Kempton has added his comments, quite a chap, I think he knows more about floating a ‘Paddle Steamer’ on a ‘Shoe String’ than many more, not just talk about it but doing it, but that’s another story to bear in mind.
As he has already said a ‘Press Release’ is on its way from the ‘Ryde Trust’, so will not steal too much from it at present.
However, as you have all said, more than one way to move the Ryde, as we know it is all about money or lack of it. All the enthusiasm in the world is of little use if not available, not to forget volunteers as well. Albeit a small amount can do the trick, as we proved with the ‘Medway Queen’ we raised her and moved her on the shoestring scenario, in1987, can be done. I have no idea how much was spent at the time as I was just an helper then, inspired by the few, that viewed failure as not an option, the enthusiasm was but contagious then, basically by ten active people working on and for the ship and also raising money, any which way we could. We paid for materials out of our own pockets, even borrowed money on our homes to pay the receivers £15.000 to buy the ship, need I say any more. We were consider candidates for the ‘funny farm’ by some, other said we would never do it in a million years, albeit sympathetic, but dealing with eccentrics. I doubt if £50.000 was spent overall, but we done it!!!!
 Since then more restrictions are now in place, one is the removal of asbestos in procedures, cost possible up to £20.000, and other safety needs.
By Medway Queen methods or an employed salvage team, floating or, disassemble as we did, (as an option to move to Bristol recent), bearing in mind would be several legal requirements now to either way before this could be achieved. 300k to 500k would be needed at a rough guess, mine not the Trust.
Her eventually restoration is a long way to go, she is a registered Historic Vessel, which means can apply to the Heritage Lottery Fund. But as already pointed out many projects in the queue, but no need to go into all the pitfalls over this at present, one step at a time.
But the possible cost relating to today’s prices in restoration is difficult, in as much as how the job could be done, and under what restrictions. Under the HLF there are very strict rules to comply with, if done privately more lee way, could be half of cost.
The Medway Queen had a quote from Sweden for the hull as specified by the HLF for a riveted hull at 8 million pounds, but Ables was basically 2 million pounds.
Hypothetically, one possibility is private money; weld hull (not rivet) then would comply with the MCA possibly for passenger quota (maybe new build) would be the latest updated paddler built in the UK, that could possible conform to regulations, think of the implications of that.
All far less than 10 million pounds, possible eight million pounds.
All I am saying is ‘faint heart never won fair lady’ determination is the key, anything is possible, never say never!!!

Kind regards, and thanks for your understanding.
Len Knight.

[lenknight]

Well folks it seems history maybe about to repeat its self, 30 odd years ago the ‘Daily Mail’ highlighted the plight of the paddler steamer Medway Queen, this started of a steady interest in this historic paddler, this resulted in today’s rebuild of this ship.
Now the ‘Daily Express’ has done likewise for the Ryde:
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/113330/Full-steam-ahead
 All is possible with a bit more political will and positive thinking about our historic fleet that could be, bearing in mind other European countries can support their paddle steamers much older than ours, and that we have the largest coastline of any individual European country, and not as some at home being ‘prophets of doom’ before even trying to achieve saving their heritage. How sad, I feel it is better to have tried at least, than not at all.

I have set up a Yahoo site to this end albeit basic at present, re the Ryde if anyone should be interested:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/friends_of_the_ryde
Regards Len Knight.

[jkemp1]

Hi all,

Just seen latest ex Len and indeed we were very fortunate to get the piece in the Sunday Express, thanks to our contact Ed Baker. We are still trying to sort something for this great ship, but need more support as ever, especialy on the IOW but beyond of course. The fustrating thing is that as Len and I know, it can be done and should be done, yes it takes some doing of course. If it was easy.....

JohnK

[monarch]

Well, we go to visit the Ryde every day on the Monarch...sad to say that more deterioration is to be seen to the hull and it is beginning to deform.  Sadly there is little chance of saving her, ........and before anyone shoots me down; not my words but those of a naval architect and very large ships surveyor of 30 years (passenger aboard at the time).
I think its best that everyone's money just goes into the Medway Queen to see her finished.

I am told that the engine is likely to be sold off separately-and that this is inevitable due to various reasons, which will make the rebuild/restoration of this ship impossible.  The reasons for this would probably end up in a big fight on the forum, which I do not want-therefore I shall not go into them.

I have to be honest, until KC and Waverley make enough profit to be guaranteed in the future, that is how I would like to see things rest.  Those two beautiful ships need no competition in such a restricted market.

Lets just gather up her history, document her and consign her to the museum.  I have to be brutally honest-that is how most of the Island folk feel...and I am a paddle boat fan!

It would be great to see the Ryde back in her former glory-but ask yourselves....is it realistic?

Sad news, but sensible I fear?

[jkemp1]

Well, like you say, I to do not want to get in to arguments and fights on the forum, don't really help, but...disagree with you, to lose such a ship is not acceptable, your arguments have been applied to Medway Queen before, competition with other ships, lets just rip the engines out and put them on display, we've got photos etc. I can commend the fact you post under the Monarch name, at least it is clear where you are coming from, and can understand your position. You clearly have local knowledge as to the fate of the engines, and as known, have had dealings with at least one piece, the engine consol panel. I am sorry that it seems not only you but others who I would have thought would be supportive, seem determined to see another piece of our maritime history destroyed.

Johnk

[Excelsior]

I applaud those who are taking on the huge task of restoring the RYDE. Whether they are, or aren't, successful isn't really the point.  The fact that they are willing to offer their time, effort and, often, money is to be commended and they shouldn't be derided for this.  Regardless of whether we agree on the practicality of the project.

I don't have any strong opinions on the restoration, but just a quick word of defense, which isn't necessarily an indication of my opinion on the project.  While she isn't such a big boat as the RYDE, the HERO was pretty stuffed (attached is a pick of her before salvage).  From what I understand, there is not a visible piece of the boat that is more than 12 years old.  The original material is confined to some planking below the waterline (and maybe some frames).  If I'm wrong in any of this I'm sure that Michael or Roderick could provide correct information.  There were people who challenged the sense of rebuilding the boat, but I think she's proven to be a worthwhile project. 

As for the notion that the RYDE would be one paddler too many...  If the UK, a country of 60 million people (and more visitors), can't support 6 commercial paddle steamers there's something wrong.   In Echuca, a town of less than 20 thousand people (admittedly there are a lot of visitors) alone there are 7 commercial paddlers.  Admittedly, they are much smaller than most of the UK boats with lower running and maintainence costs, but 7 days a week, most days of the year there are usually at least 3 boats running.  That's just in one town!

From another perspective, I do wonder whether a vessel which requires such a substantial rebuild with so much new material could really be considered to be the original vessel.  From what I've read about the work being completed on the MEDWAY QUEEN, I can't reconcile it as being the same vessel.  However, there is a link which is stronger than that which a pure replica possesses.  And it's all a matter of opinion really.  I hold the same reservations about the HERO, yet I don't feel the same way about the ADELAIDE.  There is very little, or no, original material in her...  Well, the engines are original & probably a few bits of the superstructure.  I think it's more about an emotional response, and a reconstructed RYDE would provide this opportunity for people, whereas a replica wouldn't.

So, while we are all entitled to our opinions, maybe we should be a bit more reserved in expressing them.  Reading this thread, I've begun to feel that it has become a battle along the lines of "I'm right, you're wrong" between two distinct groups.  Maybe we could tone it down a bit and be more respectful to each other, because I don't think anyone has been proved right or wrong...  It's mostly been an expression of opinion which has been formed by parties based on their perspective.  Lets not forget, most commentators in this thread have a vested interest in the RYDE project in one way or another.  We don't have to all agree, but we don't have to support all proposals either.  This forum is about sharing knowledge and potentially building support for preservation projects.  Constructive criticism and differing opinions should always be encouraged, but we're past that now. To continue with the same arguments is neither constructive, or interesting.  It's repetitive and damaging to the goals of some and the forum generally.

I apologise if I've overstepped the mark by making these comments, however I'm interested in reading about the RYDE project (whether realistic or unrealistic) and have found the tone of the thread disappointing.  I would like to clarify that I am not directing my comments at any particular individual or point of view, there hasn't been a lot of restraint excercised by a few posters.  So, please do not take offence.  If anyone feels that I am out of line, please let me know publicly, or privately.

Regards

Mac

[Excelsior]

Oh yeah, the HERO in the 90's...

[PaddleWheel]

Have you seen these?