Re: Message from a very 'newbie' (or Flash Steam)

[Fred Graham]

Hi, Andy and Ian,

The guys to be jealous of are the ones who have boats that run at these speeds. Trying to get video was a real nightmare. I startedoff near to the edge but once the boat built up speed it was only takin 5-6 seconds to make one lap and the 6 foot wall of water made it quite exiting. I will be going back to see them again and hopefully will get some pictures at speed but it aint easy.

At present the record breaker is 'in the pits' due to lube problems. He usrs the highest temperature steam oil with a castrol additive which is hard to get these days. He uses hydrostatic lubrication which utilises water feed pump pressure to force lube oil into the cylinder. There is a write of Bob's boat in model engineer. If there is an interest in this I will dig out the reference dates.

[Fred Graham]

Hi,

Oops duplication again on my last post. I wanted you to see the engine so I'll have another go. I hope its in this time.

All the best, Fred Graham

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's....well Fred.....I see a nicely planked hull on genuine 5 ply hull frames.....but cannot figure out what that monstrosity of an engine it is.....

I see straight cut spur gears.. ...a few copper lines....at tank of some sort & lots of socket head cap screws with a little insulation material

Ian mentioned flash steam... but I am ....tell us more ..........Derek

[kiwimodeller]

Derek, a Flash Steam boiler is not a water vessel as conventional boiler is but instead a tightly wound coil of pipe, sometimes two layers. Water from a tank is pumped through it by an engine driven waterpump. A very powerful blowlamp, usually petrol burning in the old days, superheats the water/steam as it progresses through the "boiler" resulting in very hot, very high pressure steam. The engine is usually fairly conventional, in fact the A H Rayman "High Speed Steam Engine" in my paddler came with plans for both conventional and flash boilers. One day maybe I w2ill get brave enough to try building  a boat with the flash version. I believe they are very noisy, louder than an I C engine. A steam hydro like the one in Freds posts is capable of around 100mph while tethered to a pole - AWESOME!

[Fred Graham]

Hi Derek and Kiwimodeller

You are dead right both of you., although Kiwimodeller is slightly kinder, "Monstrosity indeed!" Its a work of dedication by a keen exponent of flash steam and I kinda thought it was quite good looking.

Actually joking apart it is single cylinder 1 3/16" bore x1" stroke uniflow sinle acting engine with poppet inlet valve. Ihas a water pump 1/4" x 1/2" maximum stroke and a fuel pump (Parafin/petrol mix) which feeds a triple burner. The burner heats a complex coil of stainless steel tube !/4" I think  and approximately about 30 ft of it.

It generates a phenomenal torque which takes a great deal of holding back and if not tethered to a central pole around which it laps it might well go into orbit.

I have watched and if anyone is in doubt about the quality of the engineering, the dedication to his hobby and the engineering skil expended to achieve a world record in this class  they really ought to see the model on the pond.

I think I may be slightly biased!?

All the best to you both, Fred Graham

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's....& we should really take this thread elsewhere  ...but was it not Von Braun.....[Werner] that considered the potential of flash steam  and converted the energy concept into rocketry...or as we now know high speed baby gas turbines?....did they not power the original V1 & V2 rockets in the late 1940's.......& we still have them for use in current TSAMS or ICBM launchers  ......

So Fred & Ian......having  seen all of this ,,,,, ,,,,,,,I will take my older bones & stay with low speed piston valve steam engines...Derek

[Fred Graham]

Hi Derek,

Sorry to have offended your "old bones", I myself am 67 old years but try to keep an open mind about anything on steam especially record breaking stuff.

You are probably right that it should be in different slot somewhere, but being a 'newbie' I did not know where. I suppose Mr Admin will know.

There must be someone in Paddleducks who finds 'flash steam' interesting?

By the way there is an interesting article in Model Boats this month (September) by Peter Arnott on LPG Vaporisers. Helping to keep the fuel tanks from cooling. I am sure that PD's will be interested in that, even you Derek (No offense meant).

All the best, Fred Graham

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's....&  ...you could never offend an OZIE Fred...we are unoffendable ...we eat iron ore sandwiches & wash them down with a  ...& we take a garlic flavoured fishoil tablet each day so we don't rust

I thought that Jim  would have moooved this steam thread into the Live Steam folder.............where all good steam stories live.....Derek

[Eddy Matthews]

Hi PD's....&  ...you could never offend an OZIE Fred...we are unoffendable ...we eat iron ore sandwiches & wash them down with a  ...& we take a garlic flavoured fishoil tablet each day so we don't rust

Derek is correct Fred - I've tried to offend Aussies in the past and they've all fallen on stoney ground (only joking!)... Iron ore sandwiches and is what the Scots call Iron Bru - Well that's what Aussie lager tastes like to me!

As Jim has started to deal with this, I'll leave it to him to move the topic into the Live Steam folder...

Eddy

[Red_Hamish]

Hello all, OK I'm an idiot I must have been fast asleep when I tried to move the topic earlier  now back on track

cheers

Jim

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's....& seriously Fred...this is typical of the help from our PD moderators......& also the fun & banter along the road.....

Flash steam is a very interesting subject  & will be read & re-read by many around the globe ...including me

Opps......it is Sunday morning .....  10.06 am here in OZ....time for a & a glarlic+fishoil tablet.....

Thankyou Jim......thankyou Eddy........ Derek

[steamboatmodel]

Hi Derek,
What no Vegemite with that!
At one time they ran Flash Steam and round the pole here, but it was well before my time.
Hi Fred and welcome aboard, Thanks for the heads up on the Sept. Model Boats, if Peter Arnott has an article I will try to find a copy. The closest I have come to Flash Steam is building Pop Pop engines, and one time I had a water pickup blocked on a Gas boat witch on slowing down became unblocked, with a large plume of steam.
Regards,
Gerald

[bogstandard]

Just to keep Derek happy I will add my two new pence worth.

The only iron Derek eats, is when he is trying to chew the manacles off his convict stock ankles and wrists.

As for the Aussie beer. How? Where do they grow all the finest hops to brew it?, in the insect infested desert they live in?. Methinks they have rather large chemical plants to make the stuff.  No wonder they all have addled brains. 

To get back to the matter of flash steam.

It is definitely a dying art form in most places. I personally think it is all due to the decline of the combined model maker/machinist. In the early days, the only way to make such high powered beasts, was to make the engines yourself either from back street castings or bar stock. Over the years, the meaning of model making has changed, at one time you would have to make everything yourself, nowadays a lot of it is bought off the shelf. Unfortunately flash steam isn't included in money making company's scheme of things, so it is left to the diehards of the modelling fraternity to carry on using the remnants of a golden age. As far as I can see, engine and boiler design has changed very little since the beginning, just better fuels, materials and tighter tolerances of the machining, so giving the edge over older power plants. Or are totally new designs being made?

Does anyone else have any views on this dying part of our fascinating hobby. Maybe I am totally wrong in my views, it wouldn't be the first time, or is it environmental issues that are causing the decline?

John

[Eddy Matthews]

I think your partially right John..... There are very few people who want to put the effort into making their own engines and boilers nowadays, add to that the expense of the machinery needed to do it, nevermind the skills required!

Then we come to the "nanny" state we now live in (certainly in the UK), where there are so many rules and regulations it's impossible to keep up with them all

The same is true of modelling in general - Youngsters today are used to instant results.....  They have grown up with computers, MP3 players, Games consoles, etc etc.... Plug it in and go..... If it requires a few months (or years) of effort they don't want to know!

And how many times have you seen the "green" lobby say that something will cause pollution, or excessive noise, or whatever - Without ever investigating wether their comments actually have any validity?

Sorry, it's been a bad day! Rant over.... But I'm sure you get my drift?

Eddy

[Fred Graham]

Hi Folks,

Oh dear, shame about the kids but all the apprenticeships must be in India and China so they have little chance to get the skills I guess. Pity, 'cos there's lots of fun and satisfaction to be got from playing in workshops.

I have a Myford Super seven bought 50 years ago brand new for less the £70 and that beautiful new Conioseur (Spelling?) costs more than £7000. Trouble is if I changed it all my chucks and collets fit directly on my dividing head on my miller (also a Myford) so it would be a pain in cash and changeover.

I love the picture of Jim King and his flash boat Gerald, those were the days.

Do you think they've heard about 'Old Peculiar in Oz or NZ 'cos I agree this amber nectar is like the reindeer pee that comes from Scandinavia.

All the best, Fred