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Author Topic: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven  (Read 3389 times)

Offline Spankbucket

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Re: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2019, 05:06:57 PM »
That war is also referred to, in English, as the 'Austro Prussian War'.

To English people the term 'German/y' refers to the sovereign state of Germany after unification of the german speaking states under Prussia in Jan 1871 following the defeat of France in the Franco Prussian War. Before that Austria had always been the dominant power in 'german' Europe.

It lost that lead in the 1866 war.

Sorry to divert this into a history lesson but it's one of my key interests!


Offline Hankwilliams

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Re: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2019, 06:39:06 PM »
No, your knowledge about the historical events short before German unification in 1871 is very instructive. In this coherence: The aristocraty family of the Welfen of Kingdom of Hannover, which were confederate with Austria, still in our days has big propertys in Gmunden/Austria. The fellowship with Austria wasn`t accidentally, two members of the Decken expedition (Captain von Schikh and engineer Kanter) were Austrian citizens.

I now made an connection via facebook to an inhabitant of Baardheere, Somalia - Diwanka Taarikhda Baardheere. There is a informative page in Suaheli and English and he is well informed about von Decken and his tragical end in Baardhere.

Thomas

Offline Hankwilliams

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Re: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2019, 08:43:07 PM »
Here some further nice historical pictures of Decken`s expeditions and one of my "Welf" model. 0990 must be at east coast of today northern Kenya or soutern Somalia, 0991 at Juba river and 0992 is a view of Kilimandjaro of Decken`s previous expedition.

Offline Hankwilliams

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Re: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2019, 01:06:10 AM »
Sorry, the file was too large.
In the preparation phase of Deckenīs expedition a large model of "Welf " in commision of King Georg of Hannover was manufactured. It was one of the early live steam models. Scale was about 1 : 12, which gives a lenght of 3 meter. The model survived in his original shape the courses of time until end of 20. century. Then it was completely restored to the original Welf, but looses his home made model steam engine with vertical boiler. So the present model has loose its originality. The pictures shows the model before conversation. The second last pictures shows my model.

Offline Paddlemex

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Re: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2019, 02:09:13 AM »

Interesting history lessen here. Apparently only in German language the seven weeks war is referred to as the "german war". In spanish it is also known as the "guerra austro-prusiana". If you search Google for "guerra alemana" (German war) you find links to all kind of wars, but not this one. Searching for "guerra austro-prusiana" leads to the seven weeks war.

Another beautiful model of yours Thomas.

Jurgen

Offline Spankbucket

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Re: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2019, 04:59:09 PM »
A fabulous model of, to me, an unknown prototype......straight from my period of historical interest.

As someone who had a Viennese mother I found the details of the 2 Austrian participants of particular interest....additional food for research.

Incidentally do you know the identity/type of the deck breech-loader pivot gun? Did you make or buy that item?


Offline Spankbucket

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Re: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2019, 05:23:42 PM »
I noticed after going back to your earlier photos that she had brass deck cannons on trucks. Did you replace those for any specific reason?

I ask since I too, on my model of the US built Italian ironclad 'Re d'Italia' sunk at Lissa in 1866, wrestled with trying to establish the deck guns identities....after failing to find an answer I went for breech-loading Armstrong 110 prs.

Offline Hankwilliams

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Re: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2019, 07:24:25 PM »
So many really interesting posts and questions. I will try to answer as good I know: The brass (in original bronze) cannons on deck were a present of the Indian goverment, I don`t know the calibre.
The pivot gun on the foredeck was a 6 pounder, disposaled by King Georg of Hannover from the Hannover arsenal, it`s not common which factory made it. For the model I used a whitemetal kit of a pivot by American civil war - yet from the same time and similar construction of the original Welf pivot.
The original "Welf" has had an oscillating low pressure engine in V shape with condensor, power was only 45 hp.
The two Austrian members of the expedition: K.k Ritter (Knight) Karl von Schickh (Captain) from Vienne and k.k Maschinenmeister (engineer) Nikolaus Kanter from Vienne.
As I wrote, I have a connection via Facebook to an Baardheere inhabitant, perhaps it`s possible to find out some more informations about relicts of the wreck of "Welf".
A add one historic picture of the killed persons of the expedition.

Thomas

Offline Spankbucket

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Re: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2019, 05:33:41 PM »
Every question I raise leads to more areas of interest....!!

As someone who spent a period of my life living in India, and thereby acquired a keen interest in it's history, the origin of the cannons prompts me to ask which Indian government you refer to.

If before 1858, do you mean the Honourable East India Company or one of the princely States? From the date of the expedition it's also possible that they were a gift from Queen Victoria's Indian Empire that took power after the end of Indian Mutiny in 1859....I think the date was around 1861+??

I apologise again for more history and it may be that the moderator would like us to move to another section?

Offline Hankwilliams

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Re: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2019, 06:18:31 PM »
In 1871 a very exact book about Decken`s expeditions - he made 5 Journeys into East Africa, Zanzibar, Madagaskar, the Seychelles and last to the land of the Somali and Galla - was published by Otto Kersten, Decken`s Companion of the Kilimandjaro ascent. Basic of the work were the preserved diarys of von Decken. In this book only is referenced that "the four bronze cannons were a present of the Indian Government". From the present time and because Decken`s last expedition was well prepared and well known, I suppose that Queen Victorias Indian Empire was the donator.
The journey from Zanzibar to Jumbo and then up the Juba river also is very exactly described. For example - in this time it was well known in East Africa, that the "White Man" has annected Hindustan and probably would annect Africa also.

Regards Thomas

Offline Spankbucket

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Re: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2019, 07:03:21 PM »
So the locals were unable to differentiate between British and 'german' colonialism in East Africa?!

Thanks so much for spending so much time on addressing my tedious questions...I will take it from here as a bit of research.

Offline Hankwilliams

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Re: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2019, 05:32:32 PM »
The later German and British colonialism were quite different. In toto one can say, that the German colonialsm was rigorous, but the justice between white and colored people was almost equal. In Deutsch - Ostafrika (Tansania) before 1914 great projects were startet - for example the railway between Daressalam and Tanganijka Lake, the alphabetism of the colored people, many schools were established. The rights between the tribes were not touched.
Also the much longer British colonialism has made great advances at the infrastructure and the system of communikations. As far I know the system of administration between German and British colonialism was different. It seems, that the juridical differents of white and colored people in the British colonies were more evident.
But this all is a long time ago - today it seems that Germany will go into direction of a failed state because of wrong and lack of reponsibiliy politics and administration.

Offline Spankbucket

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Re: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2019, 07:52:09 PM »
If my Merkel serves me correctly you are right!

Offline Hankwilliams

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Re: German explorating Paddlesteamer "Welf", steam driven
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2019, 02:53:27 AM »
I fear, that I am right!

 

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