Downloads

[Eddy Matthews]

Sadly, far too many people register for an account simply so they can grab all the files we have available for download, and then we never see them again... They contribute nothing and take everything!

Websites such as ours can only survive if the members take an active part, so to this end, newly registered users will NOT be able to download files until they have made a useful contribution, either by posting messages, or providing material we can use.

Posting pointless messages, or providing unsuitable material, will not gain you access - It will simply be deleted and you'll be back at square one!

[a67ems]

I fully understand your position on downloads, however I feel that this makes it a hardship on us folks who are not in the British Isles. I am in the U.S. and know nothing about U.K. paddlewheelers even though they have a rich and varied history. Therefore I do not feel I would be able to contribute to the degree you deem necessary.
I joined this group in the hopes that I would be able to d/l the articles on the Zulu lake paddlewheel steamer which I had initially seen in Ships in Scale magazine. This article was by a Norman Wexler and whetted my interest in this vessel.
I wish I had some knowledge to impart to the group but I do not!
Dave

[Harold H. Duncan]

Hi Dave,
I live in New Zealand, and my interest is mainly in paddle steamers from Here and Australia. First came here looking as you did for information, didn't think I had anything to offer either, but post a little now and again, and remain here.
Whatever your region, this forum is for those of us who have an interest in paddle boats, anywhere in the world. The USA has a rich history of paddle boats, just as has most countries of the world, so everyone has something to offer. If you are a modeller, and this is your first paddler, then post photos and descriptions of your build, we all love to see others ways of doing things. Show us your models even if not of paddleboats. If your interest is in full size vessels, then again, post your photos etc, as they will be of interest to others here. Everyone has knowledge they can impart, if they have an interest in the subject. Your knowledge may answer someone else's question one day. We all abide by the rules here and everyone gets along fine. They are a great bunch of happy people on this forum, relax and join right in, your most welcome.

kiwi

[Dinosaursoupman]

Hello Dave,

The moderators of the forum are not asking for a large "contribution". Just something to show that your interest in the website is more than just grabbing everything on here for free, and then not giving anything back. So tell us why you've chosen the ZULU. Tell us about your past experience in modeling or why you've chosen to start building paddlers. Tell us about your dog when you were a kid (of course that thread would be started in the off-topic section). The people here are just that, people. Our interests go beyond just paddlers though the forum is centered on paddlers. Despite the fact that much of the history related here deals with British paddlers, by all means share with us anything you have on paddlers from all over the world.

I live in California but have found researching the paddlers of the Yukon to be very interesting.

Don't give up, keep posting, and after each post see if the downloads section is available to you.

Randy

[bigbenn]

Hi,
I'm in Aussie as luck would have it and I am willing to upload plans of paddlers from my collection and I have lots from technical journals of the day, some books and other resources. However I would like someone to explain to me "how" I can upload plans and things to the Downloads section, then I'll scan some plans and post them and maybe my plans directory of paddlesteamers - although I also have plans of many other types of ships and warships too - none in copyright, so far as I am aware.
BigBenn@fastmail.fm
Bigbenn

[Eddy Matthews]

Hi,
I'm in Aussie as luck would have it and I am willing to upload plans of paddlers from my collection and I have lots from technical journals of the day, some books and other resources. However I would like someone to explain to me "how" I can upload plans and things to the Downloads section, then I'll scan some plans and post them and maybe my plans directory of paddlesteamers - although I also have plans of many other types of ships and warships too - none in copyright, so far as I am aware.
BigBenn@fastmail.fm
Bigbenn

How to upload the plans depends on how large the scanned images are Bigbenn.... If they are 4Mb or smaller, you can upload them direct to the uploads section yourself. If they are over 4Mb, you can send them to me via email, to admin@paddleducks.co.uk I have a 50Mb email inbox..... If they are larger than that, I'm afraid you'll have to resort to good old fashioned snail mail.

If you find the Downloads section difficult to upload to (it can be a bit quirky!), just send them direct via email (if less than 50Mb) and I'll post them for you....

I hope that helps?

Regards
Eddy

[Eddy Matthews]

Well, what can I say?.....

I reduced the number of messages a new user had to post before they could download files to ONE, and what happened? Simple, they posted ONE message and then grabbed everything in sight!!

To put it into perspective, the whole website currently takes up 3.5 (three point five) Gigabytes - That's all the files used to run the website, as well as images and downloads - So far this month, we've exceeded 130 Gigabytes of bandwidth!! And prior to lowering the download limit, we averaged 10-11 Gigabytes of bandwidth per month!

So well done to those that have totally abused things, you've now ended up by penalising everyone, as I've increased the criteria before downloads will be allowed! And before anyone asks, NO I won't tell you what it is now set at!

If anyone feels that is harsh - fine, go elsewhere to grab things. Paddleducks is NOT here to help all the freeloaders!

Remember that this website is paid for by only three people, myself, Walter Snowdon, and David Allinson. And if our bandwidth climbs any higher, our next option is to go to dedicated server costing hundreds of pounds, either that or Paddleducks goes the way of lots of other sites and closes totally!

I realise that there are some of our long standing members who would help out financially if asked, but that is not a route we wish to take, we've always prided ourselves on providing the only online resource for paddler modellers on the internet, and becoming an organisation that charges for membership is not somewhere I want to go - In fact if it happened I would hand over control to someone else rather than be a part of it, as I feel it would be against the whole ethos of our group.

So there you have it.... I think the general tone of this message will perhaps show how annoyed I am by those that have abused things (not that I expect them to give a damn!), and also put into context why we have to keep some control over the amount of data that we transmit.

Eddy (Paddleducks Admin)

[Tug--Kenny]

Thank you for that, Eddy.

I, for one appreciate what you and the team are doing, and I'm sure the members do, also.

How can we help in any way.

I have often wondered with clubs such as ours,"where are all the letters and pictures stored". I assume they are on disks somewhere, which is getting bigger and bigger.

Can you explain "bandwidth" please. Is this the transmission of these details out to the world that counts, or just the total storage on site?

Does the size of the pictures stored make a difference? Can really old mail which refers to something out of date be removed to thin things down a bit?

Sorry it's so many questions, but I'm only trying to see a way out for us. I also would not object to a Christmas donation if it will keep the site running in it's excellent fashion. After all, we are the enthusiasts and must keep the paddle steamer alive.

Your respectfully

Ken Churchill.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's.....Ken ...this is not a first time episode  ... .....but it appears we have let our guard down

I acknowledge our administrators have re-stated that PD's is not a membership $XX based per annum subscription....however I would again offer this subject for consideration

The 30 odd regular contributors [out of ~~~~850] @ say ten pounds UK] each PA would make a great assistance to ensure our PD site remains

Again I understand the complexities of registering PD's as a formal entity & the Gooooooooovermental regulations that would apply  ...so my suggestion is that nothing much changes....but possibly an * in the member profile if they are a susbscription member

So Eddy, Walter & David......could you please consider this proposal & then offer a postal address here or on a PM & I will ensure the first membership/sponsership for a ten pound note is from OZ............... .............Derek

[Daryl]

Just a thought which alas would place more work on the administrators, but couldn't  downloads  be blocked unless a request is submitted to the administrators. That way at least the freeloaders will have to make a positive contribution before they can get accsess and not just Hi I'm from downtown Hicksville... now can I plunder all your'e hard work for nothing!!

[Harold H. Duncan]

Hi Eddy,
Fully appreciate all the work you, Walter and David do, and the effort put in. This is still the best place to be for paddlers and steam. I also understand your reluctance to go the monetary path, but how about an extra bitty on the side bar similar to that for the Medway Queen where members could make a donation to help things along. Would not necessarily need to go into your pockets, but into your club or some other organisation associated with paddlers. (only you three would need to know). Just a thought in passing). But, whatever you do, please keep the good work going. Tighten up the downloads any way you see fit, true members will not mind any little "inconvenience" to use the service, only those who rip us all off, and then maybe they will go bother someone else.
Don't get to disheartened by the rotten few who spoil things for the great bunch of regular paddleducks members.
keep smiling
regards
kiwi

[Eddy Matthews]

Gentlemen, thankyou for the comments so far.... Sadly none of them would solve the problem. I'll try to explain in more detail now that I've had time too cool off a little!

I will answer each point raised so far to the best of my ability, please don't think I'm trying to teach my granny to suck eggs! In other words, don't take offence at what I'm about to write!!

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Ken....

Message and images are stored on our Hosts server, exactly the same as they are stored on your computer hard drive at home. Deleting old posts etc won't really help the situation, as they only take up a very small amount of space compared to the large files in our downloads section for example. And who is to say what would be useful for members at a later date? It would almost inevitably mean that messages were deleted, and then be wanted at some point in the future, by which time it's too late!

All websites have two main restrictions placed on them by the very nature of the way the internet works - These are webspace and bandwidth. Webspace is the amount of space all the files take up on our servers hard drive, and bandwidth is the amount of data that is sent to each user as they browse the site. The bandwidth is the real killer as it can rocket out of control very easily.... And when that happens, our Host will simply block access to the website until the following month - Do we really want a website that is only online 1 week out of 4? As that is the sort of situation we're quickly heading towards unless we take control of it now...


Derek/Kiwi.....

As Derek has pointed out, we have approximately 30-40 users who post on a very regular basis, and these are the most likely members to help out financially if asked..... However, that still doesn't remove the problem... 30 people at £10 per person equals £300, but the cost of a semi-dedicated server package is in the region of £550 per year, so the figures don't add up Additionally, that has to be paid every year in advance, so what happens if there is a shortfall and we don't come up with enough money?

Secondly, it still doesn't eliminate the bandwidth problem - it simply increases our current limit of 150Gb per month to 600Gb per month. Paddleducks continues to grow each year, so it wouldn't take long before we reached that limit as well Then we would need to move to a fully dedicated server with costs in the region of £4000 per year!


Daryl......

Yes it's very easy to set things up so that users have to ask for download access, but what happens when someone asks for access and then abuses the system? That WILL happen without doubt! Then we remove access and get slagged off because they haven't got all the files they wanted, so we end up with arguements because we (the admin team) have dared to stop them in their tracks... We can't win!

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Subscriptions aren't a viable option as we then end up being a club with paying members, so we need an elected comittee and a constitution to handle everything. We need people such as a secretary, treasurer etc etc. Accounts have to be submitted each year, we could end up with taxes to pay, and well, the list is endless!

Donations sound like a way round those problems, but again they aren't..... The funding is too unreliable, bearing in mind that large hosting fees have to be paid in advance. We still have to account for where the money is going so you guys know I'm not sitting here lining my pockets with your hard earned cash!

I'm afraid that there is no easy solution that I can see, although I'm open to suggestions if someone knows of a way to sort all these issues?

Sadly we're a victim of our own success - Crazy though that sounds!!

Regards
Eddy

[Eddy Matthews]

I'd like to say a big thankyou to everyone who has offered to make a donation towards the costs of Paddleducks. It IS appreciated guys beleive me - It certainly restores my faith that there are people out there that appreciate what we do and are prepared to support us.

However, as I explained above, unless we can raise hundreds of pounds on a regular yearly basis, it won't really help with the bandwidth issue, which is where our problem lies.

I do have a couple of options that may work, and I'll give it some more thought over the next week or so... We will crack this one way or another!

Regards
Eddy

[amdaylight]

[/quote]
Subscriptions aren't a viable option as we then end up being a club with paying members, so we need an elected committee and a constitution to handle everything. We need people such as a secretary, treasurer etc etc. Accounts have to be submitted each year, we could end up with taxes to pay, and well, the list is endless!

Donations sound like a way round those problems, but again they aren't..... The funding is too unreliable, bearing in mind that large hosting fees have to be paid in advance. We still have to account for where the money is going so you guys know I'm not sitting here lining my pockets with your hard earned cash!

I'm afraid that there is no easy solution that I can see, although I'm open to suggestions if someone knows of a way to sort all these issues?

Sadly we're a victim of our own success - Crazy though that sounds!!

Regards
Eddy
[/quote]

Eddy,

First let me thank you for the wonderful web form that you have started and continue to build. Also let me explain that I have not posted any more than I have because I really have not had anything to say until now I am still reading and learning. I am getting ready this winter to build a couple of paddlers so I am still taking it all in. When I start building I will do a builders thread.

Running a web based forum is a expensive, daunting and difficult undertaking trying to keep every one happy and I really do appreciate what you are doing. I belong to several other web based forums, (Trainorders, mylarge scale, Sub Pirates) that all charge between $15.00 and $20.00 per year to have full privileges to the forums. I consider this some of the best money I spend on my hobbies, by far less than a magazine subscription. By paying for the web forums that I do I am able to pick and choose which forums that I get the most benefit out of, I consider your forum to be among these web forums. 

So if you need to charge to keep up the quality and keep the riffraff out I do not see this as a problem. You mention that if you did this site as a subscription type of site that there would have to be officers and a committee and other things, to this I don't agree with, the only committee that this site needs is You! As to answering to the members that have paid, I don't see why you should, The owner of a magazine that I subscribe doesn't consult me in the day to day or even in the year to year running of his business so why should you feel this way. Second if you did charge 10 or 15 pounds a year to every one that really was interested and benefited from this site and when the site continues to grow then you could pay for new computers, more band width or anything else the site would need to keep this site running with out it becoming a drain on your personal finances. And lastly if there was any money left over at the end of the year you could take your wife out to a really nice dinner and put the rest inot your pocket as a thank from all of us here at Paddleducks!!!   

Andre Anderson
amdaylight
over yonder in Portland Oregon

[Eddy Matthews]

Your comments are greatly appreciated Andre, thankyou.

Fortunately the actions I've taken to stop those that are only here to take, have worked. So for now everything is okay. We will continue to monitor the situation, and see where we go....

Walter Snowdon and David Allinson share the costs of hosting the site with me, so I'm not the only one involved - Though I admit I'm probably the most outspoken!

Regards
Eddy