PS.Invincible (Murray River Australia)

[RDUNC]

G'Day
Years ago as a kid I used to play on the wreck of the Invincible at Goolwa - near the Hindmarsh Island Ferry.
In 1978 the superstructure was removed and the hull salvaged, towed upstream to Gurra by the Enterprise.

Ive tried to find out what happened from then but have drawn a blank.
An old gentleman at Milang said he thought it was purchased to be rebuilt down there but broke its back when it was shifted.

Does anyone have any information on the Invincible...??
All I have is:
Original owner at Registration Charles Hunt No. 93628    1890
Length 91' Breadth 20.2' Depth 5.5' Gross Tonnage 84.27  25 Hp  

Purchased in 1978 by Mssrs Graham Barton-Ancliffe, Denis Wasley, John Craker.
Towed to Gurra from Goolwa (Longest tow on the the Murray 640KM) by the Enterprise skippered by Bob Ried, Engineer John Norris, Crew John Lyons & Mike Goldsmith.

[Roderick Smith]

Are you quoting from an early Parsons?
The 1996 edition goes a bit further:
Partly demolished in 1988; surviving pieces have gone to Milang Historic Steam & Shipping Group, which intends to recreate the vessel.  There is a photo of the hull, with no superstructure, paddleboxes, boiler or engine.  Parsons describes the location as 5 km upstream of Berri.  I don't know the condition of the hull now.
At Mildura R&RH&PS abandoned the project to restore PS Success as just too financially and technically daunting; it has received cosmetic work to help it survive until megamillions are available.  In the region, PS Ruby has taken years of money, sponsorhip and volunteer work to reach the steaming success of the weekend just past.  At Robinvale, work on PS Canally is proceeding slowly, as the pool of volunteers is quite small.

At Wentworth, I was speaking to an owner of Cato.  The duo are also restoring Colonel.  They do have some parts from Captain Sturt, obtained when it was demolished.  Since my June cruise past Murray Bridge, Cato has had the rudder chains fitted, and has now moved under its own steam.

There is a boat sunk in front of Goolwa public wharf, but it can't be Invincible.  It is an anchoring hazard at Goolwa Wooden Boat Festival.

As posted a while back, privately-owned PS Excelsior is on the bottom near Mildura.  However, even after a prolonged drought (during which the prime minister has exhorted Australians to pray for rain), it is not visible.  It would take the intervention of Moses to make that boat restorable.

Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[RDUNC]

G'Day Roderick
The dimensions, HP, and Registration info came from
"Paddle Boats of the Murray Darling System" - Brian Marshal - Mercury Publishing 1988.
The rest was from a Sunday Mail article 6-8-78 that I have.
Thanks for the extra info - it confirms what the old gentleman at Milang said.
I wonder if its still there - might have to go for a drive some time soon..!!
Cheers
Rob

[Excelsior]

Sadly, it's unlikely the Invincible will ever move again.  When acquired by the Milang Historic Steam & Shipping Museum in the 90s (it's actually owned by the Dunk & Love families on loan to the museum), it was completely disassembled, plank by plank, in order to truck it from Berri to Milang.  I have some photos of the group laying out the bottom planks & keelson in the museum yard, but not much more was ever done.  After the amount of time it's spent out of the water, I don't believe that much of the planking would be of any use.  Which only leaves the frames.  Again, being almost 120 years old, a lot of these might need to be replaced.  Even if the vessel was reassembled I'm not sure it could be called original, but would more likely be a recreation incorporating pieces of the original.  If i can ever get near a scanner I'll post the pictures I have of her at Milang.  I'm also going to post a couple of pictures I have of her during the period the group hoped to restore her to.  There's another fantastic one I have at work which I'll post later.

I think the boat at the Goolwa wharf that Roderick was referring to would be the Renmark, a large composite hulled boat which burnt & sank at the wharf in early 1951.  I am unsure if she was ever moved, so it would make sense if it was her.  But, it's only a guess.

As for the Excelsior restoration.  I don't know about needing Moses, but funding for the restoration is certainly beyond my means at this point in my life.  Maybe if I win lotto.  The biggest issue would be salvage.  She's in about 30 foot of water & probably covered by silt.  Certainly the hull is full of it.  From the people I've spoken to who have dived on the boat, the hull is in pretty good condition, except about 10 foot of the bow.  One diver seemed to think the sponsons were still intact, which is rare.  Being filled with silt & covered with water will have preserved the wood.  With the Hero restoration, the useable parts were those which stayed under water.  Anything which spent time in the open had to be replaced.  So, from a purely technical view, getting the boat out would be the biggest challenge.  I even know where there's a suitable engine & boiler.

[Excelsior]

Just adding that pic I mentioned earlier.  I think it's part of a series taken at the same time as the one I posted earlier showing her in a lock.  I've also attached another couple, both well known pics.  One shows her on slip & another steaming at Echuca.  In Parsons there's also a direct side on photo.  It shows under the listing for the Koondrook barge, although the Invincible is incorrectly identified as the Australien.  This picture is interesting as the Milang group also has the steel sections & frames of the Koondrook.  This vessel was also cut down into sections, but could be reassembled & restored.  The Koondrook is of particular interest as there was an axe murder onboard in the 20s.  Apparently there is still a visible gash in the coaming where the axe hit.

Just a bit of extra history on the Invincible while it was at Berri & why restoration wasn't completed then.  This was given to me by one someone who is closely associated with her now.  When she moved to Berri her hull was apparently in "reasonably" good condition.  The owner at the time had a business building houseboats & for this he had constructed a small canal from the river up to his yard & a basic wet dock off this.  The Invincible was floated up this canal & into the wet dock for work to start.  She was moved above some piles, so when the water was released the she would settle on these.  Unfortunately it wasn't deemed necessary to tie the boat in place & when the water was allowed to flow out of the dock a current was formed which moved part of the boat away from the piles.  As the water level dropped (quite quickly) part of the boat settled on the piles, the rest into a deeper section of the basin, resulting in the vessel's back being broken.  The restoration was then abandoned (I would assume she was moved at this point), until the Milang group stepped in.

[Roderick Smith]

Apart from photographing nearly every surviving and new Murray paddleboat, I have photographed every surviving bridge except for the two opened within the last 12 months (I also have a few old ones of bridges now scrapped).
While there is a basic Murray-Darling style, there are differences between the bridges, mainly showing up in the nature of the beams/trusses on the approach spans.  The other clue is the orientation of the counterweight pulleys.
The unnumbered Invincible photo just has to be Nyah bridge.  It is the only one with plate-girder approach spans.  It was built in 1941, giving a dating clue for Invincible's life and location.  IIRC it also featured welded construction.

Photo 6 I can't do top of head with certainty, and the bridge collection is not in a single location.  AFAIK it is Swan Hill (the nature of the truss spans, and the asymmetric position of the main span.  This would be consistent with the other, as they are consecutive bridges.
Swan Hill was the first bridge over the Murray to use Allan trusses.  The only other surviving Murray bridge with these trusses is at Tooleybuc.
Allan was a prolific and long-serving bridge engineer, and built over 550 truss bridges in his career.
The variations from a Howe truss:
* the omission of counter braces, ie the use of single diagonal webs in lieu of crossed members.
* the placing of all webs on the same angle so that any shrinkage could be taken up by the tightening of suspension rods
* the use of swan flitches for all braces, bowed to prevent warping and twisting
* the introduction of cast iron shoes at the top and bottom of braces
* the adoption of open top and bottom chords, for easier painting and obviating the decay due to the entrance of water between the members in a built up chord
In recent years the bridge has been strenthened with metal bracing wrapped outside the original trusses (AFAIK they feature very highly on a national historic register, and must be retained).
Somewhere I posted a photo of PS Melbourne coming under this bridge, probably in an APAM thread.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[Excelsior]

It doesn't look like I'm going to be near a scanner any time soon, so I've taken pictures of my Invincible photos using my phone...  Yes, they're dodgy, but they'll give an idea of what she's like.

The 2 black and whites were taken in March 94, with the colour being taken in April of the same year.  The two small boats in the background were other vessels owned by the museum.

[ljhall]

Hi,

Just a quick post on the PS Invincible, (or rather what's left of it.)
Yes, the Invincible is definitely down at Milang, the photo from 'Ships of the Inland Rivers', RH Parsons, which shows the Invincible sitting up on the bank at a spot near Berri was the lastest photo of her that I had seen until now.
I think it was taken sometime in the very early 80's, as many of the modern-day photos in that publication were taken in 1982.
It looked as though about half of the planks in the hull had been stripped off even before they had a chance to rot, I think from memory it was the top half, that had been stripped. It also looked as though the boat had a wooden rib cage, and as the elements and years take their toll, we all know that there is very little hope for them.
The PS Edwards is a case in point, when I was at Echuca for Steamfest last October, I drove out to see her and although many PD's have often mentioned a ray of hope for this boat, I am not so optimistic.
Anyhow, getting back to the subject of the Invincible, I came across a file on the net last year, I think it was a PDF from Alexandrina Council, the Shire that encompasses Milang, Goolwa & Clayton, basically it mentioned that the Milang Historic Steam & Shipping Museum had pieces of the Hull on display, but no re-creation had yet got off the ground.
Apparently, they also have the original Helm and most of the original Funnel on display.
But not sure on exactly what happened to the rest of the boat.
I think someone mentioned 1890, as the year the boat was built in a previous post, but it was actually 1889, and she was the 2nd boat of that name, the 1st one was built at Echuca in 1877 and was apparently wrecked or broken-up just before the 1889 Invincible was built.

About 4 years ago on a mid-year visit to Echuca, I was reading a book called 'Water in their Veins', 2002, I can't remember who the author was though, but it had a listing of Vessels original and contemporary, from Albury right down to Goolwa, and for Milang, it listed the Alfred as well as the Invincible, I don't think anyone has mentioned the Alfred yet.
It was a very old boat built at Echuca in 1865, unconfirmed reports state that it was built as a Sternwheeler under the name of 'Leviathan', and converted to a Side-Wheeler and re-named 'Alfred' in 1867.
Eventually, about 1925, the Alfred was converted into a Barge and owned by the Hume Piping Co.
Much later it was planned to build her up into a floating restaurant with a permanent mooring at Murray Bridge, but just like the 'Kookaburra' at Nyah, VIC. these plans failed, and eventually the Hull of the Alfred sprang her seams and sunk in deep water at her Murray Bridge mooring.
Eventually, the hull was dredged up, I have no idea when, as I spend most of my time on the Top End of the river, and rarely get down to SA, I'm not sure how intact the Hull of the Alfred actually is but the remains are apparently on display down at Milang alongside the Invincible.

There was also mention of the 'SWPS Captain Sturt', in a previous post. She was dissmantled almost 10 years ago now, and the Helm was installed on board the SWPV Goolwa, the Stern Wheel though was apparently broken-up and taken away, and the timbers from the Superstructure that were not too rotted were simply re-cycled and incorporated into the building of Hector's Boat Shed & Gallery.
Not sure on what happened to the Steel Hull though, any ideas ?
She probably would have been a good boat to restore, she was the only boat on the Murray that was built in the US, and even being used as a static display, she would have added to Goolwa's collection of Historic Paddle Steamers, currently only the 'Oscar 'W' and the 'Federal' are the only historic examples down there.

Speaking of the Oscar W, I hear that she is being worked on again, in order to get her survey back.
Then again she's quite an original boat and turns 100 next year, and I don't suppose the salty sea air down at Goolwa does much for her preservation either.

Good to hear some news of the old originals, keep up the good work guys.

Regards,

Leith Hall

[ljhall]

Hi,

Just a quick post on the PS Invincible, (or rather what's left of it.)
Yes, the Invincible is definitely down at Milang, the photo from 'Ships of the Inland Rivers', RH Parsons, which shows the Invincible sitting up on the bank at a spot near Berri was the lastest photo of her that I had seen until now.
I think it was taken sometime in the very early 80's, as many of the modern-day photos in that publication were taken in 1982.
It looked as though about half of the planks in the hull had been stripped off even before they had a chance to rot, I think from memory it was the top half, that had been stripped. It also looked as though the boat had a wooden rib cage, and as the elements and years take their toll, we all know that there is very little hope for them.
The PS Edwards is a case in point, when I was at Echuca for Steamfest last October, I drove out to see her and although many PD's have often mentioned a ray of hope for this boat, I am not so optimistic.
Anyhow, getting back to the subject of the Invincible, I came across a file on the net last year, I think it was a PDF from Alexandrina Council, the Shire that encompasses Milang, Goolwa & Clayton, basically it mentioned that the Milang Historic Steam & Shipping Museum had pieces of the Hull on display, but no re-creation had yet got off the ground.
Apparently, they also have the original Helm and most of the original Funnel on display.
But not sure on exactly what happened to the rest of the boat.
I think someone mentioned 1890, as the year the boat was built in a previous post, but it was actually 1889, and she was the 2nd boat of that name, the 1st one was built at Echuca in 1877 and was apparently wrecked or broken-up just before the 1889 Invincible was built.

About 4 years ago on a mid-year visit to Echuca, I was reading a book called 'Water in their Veins', 2002, I can't remember who the author was though, but it had a listing of Vessels original and contemporary, from Albury right down to Goolwa, and for Milang, it listed the Alfred as well as the Invincible, I don't think anyone has mentioned the Alfred yet.
It was a very old boat built at Echuca in 1865, unconfirmed reports state that it was built as a Sternwheeler under the name of 'Leviathan', and converted to a Side-Wheeler and re-named 'Alfred' in 1867.
Eventually, about 1925, the Alfred was converted into a Barge and owned by the Hume Piping Co.
Much later it was planned to build her up into a floating restaurant with a permanent mooring at Murray Bridge, but just like the 'Kookaburra' at Nyah, VIC. these plans failed, and eventually the Hull of the Alfred sprang her seams and sunk in deep water at her Murray Bridge mooring.
Eventually, the hull was dredged up, I have no idea when, as I spend most of my time on the Top End of the river, and rarely get down to SA, I'm not sure how intact the Hull of the Alfred actually is but the remains are apparently on display down at Milang alongside the Invincible.

There was also mention of the 'SWPS Captain Sturt', in a previous post. She was dissmantled almost 10 years ago now, and the Helm was installed on board the SWPV Goolwa, the Stern Wheel though was apparently broken-up and taken away, and the timbers from the Superstructure that were not too rotted were simply re-cycled and incorporated into the building of Hector's Boat Shed & Gallery.
Not sure on what happened to the Steel Hull though, any ideas ?
She probably would have been a good boat to restore, she was the only boat on the Murray that was built in the US, and even being used as a static display, she would have added to Goolwa's collection of Historic Paddle Steamers, currently only the 'Oscar 'W' and the 'Federal' are the only historic examples down there.

Speaking of the Oscar W, I hear that she is being worked on again, in order to get her survey back.
Then again she's quite an original boat and turns 100 next year, and I don't suppose the salty sea air down at Goolwa does much for her preservation either.

Good to hear some news of the old originals, keep up the good work guys.

Regards,

Leith Hall

[Excelsior]

Hi Leith, you obviously have a lot of knowledge on the boats.  Good to see some more interest!

As per the Alfred, she's not actually at Milang, or owned by the group.  They had an arrangement with her owner & hoped to restore her.  But the group took on too many big jobs at once, which is probably a major factor in their demise.  So far I've felt it would be inappropriate to discuss this vessel, it's location & condition for a few reasons.  I'll make a few calls & see if maybe things have changed.  Then, hopefully, I can share (yes I know i sound like a tosser... sorry).

I've found a couple of pictures of the Alfred, one of which predates her iron hull being sheathed in wood.  She was certainly an interesting vessel.

[Roderick Smith]

On Sat.14.7, I visited the display at Old Mildura Homestead.  The paddleboat display mentioned PS Invincible, PS Alfred and others.
I took these two with this thread in mind.

Many of the photos in the display were ones which I hadn't seen before.

Notice that its basic run was Swan Hill - Mildura, which is consistent with the earlier photos being at the bridges at Swan Hill and at Nyah.  My father has been dead for many years, so I can't ask him about his memories of this boat.  He always used to boast about how, as a teenager, he could tell which boat was passing by the combination of exhaust beat and whistle (also, most captains had a distinctive way of whistling).  I would have to check, AFAIK he was at Murraydale (slightly downriver of Swan Hill) over 1922-27.  The main boats of which he spoke in my youth were the big ones: Ruby, Gem, Ellen and Marion.  I suspect that he saw Ruby most, but this may have been Ellen's main stretch too.  One of the best photos which I have seen of Ellen was dropping down through the bridge at Murrabit (the next bridge upriver of Swan Hill).

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[RDUNC]

Thanks for that - we will be up Mildura way next week so might drop in and have a look. The other half seems to have caught the boat bug too (or is lulling me into a false sense of security) She has been looking at websites for the Emmylou and the Ruby...even suggested an overnight stay..!!
I am sure I will pay for it some how but it will be good to get up the river again.

[Roderick Smith]

Ned F has yet to post of his experience on Sat.14.7 night.  He was being driven by his mother to Cobdogla for the Sunday celebrations, and booked in for the night on PV Murray River Queen, normally static as a b&b at Waikerie.  On this night, it was cruising as a charity fundraiser, and all the b&b patrons had the benefit of the cruise too.  So, take a chance and book onto MRQ for a night.
PS Roy is at the Cobdogla museum.  It is visible through the fence, even if you are there on a day on which the museum is not open.
You just have to wriggle to Wentworth to view PS Ruby.
At Mildura, the Mansell family boats (Impulse, Mosquito & Iraak) are moored opposite Old Mildura Homestead; PV Yarrara is just upriver.  At the homestead, you will see the hull of PS Sucess, and the inverted steel hull of lifeboat Wilaba.  Other boats are above the lock.  If you have the time, drive to Red Cliffs, then turn to Karadoc.  At the big winery turn left to reach the river.  PV Kulkyne & PV Chalka are moored there, and I am told that MV Isabele is built on a salvaged PS hull.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[ljhall]

Hi Roderick,

Good to hear from you, I am quite new to this site, actually only started posting replies last night, but I joined up back in late January.
Yes, I do have quite a knowledge of the boats, obviously my favourites are the originals 'including the almost completely re-built ones'.

Interesting to find out that the book 'Water in their Veins', didn't have the correct info. for the PS Alfred, maybe at that time (2002), it was assumed to be correct.

Do you know if there's anything happening with the PS Daisy at Mildura ?,
last I heard - she was sitting up on blocks in Wally Baldwin's Boat Yard, this was a couple of years ago, and not much had been done on her.
I noticed a photo somewhere on this site of the remains of the PS Banyulla, and there's even less of her than with the Daisy.

Most of my interest is centered around Echuca/Moama & District, so I'm never completely sure what is happening with boats further downstream.
I heard that work on the PS Success has ground to a halt for the time being, but some progress is being made on the PS Canally at Euston, which is good to hear !

I was wrapped when I learnt that the Hero & Ruby had been fired up recently, and are now' technically operational', any ideas when they will reach survey level ?

Talk to you soon,

[Roderick Smith]

Here is the PS Alfred information panel at Old Mildura Homestead.  The accompanying photo is the one posted slightly earlier in this thread.

I have posted progress reports on PS Success restoration (work suspended, in an APAM thread) and PS Canally (work advancing slowly but surely, in its own thread).  I am sure that I put up a Banyula photo, probably in the APAM List thread.

I didn't look for PS Daisy on this visit, but Michael may have a photo of it taken when he was there earlier in the year.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor