Newspaper boat!

[mjt60a]

I ran out of supplies at the weekend so work on the Freshwater had to be delayed (but has now resumed!) I had some left over balsa and balsa cement, some Art Attack* PVA and the weekends' free newspaper...So;
I read an article once where someone built a boat using paper soaked in PVA instead of planking with wood and decided, just as a trial, to give it a go. I only made a very simple frame (didn't have much wood) about 14" long and started covering it, wallpaper style, with strips of paper, diagonally then vertically then diagonally the other way then horizontally etc. At first I thought it'd be a disaster, complete waste of time but after the first two layers dried it didn't look too bad (when wet, it was hard to handle without poking holes in it) so I added another three and this morning it was quite solid. I'm going to go to eight layers then see if it can be sealed effectively.... (each time a new layer is added, the existing layers seem to soften - as if wetting it 're-activates' the PVA so I'm not at all sure this is a viable way to create a watertight hull) ...
if it can, I suppose sanding sealer might work,  I'll post a stage by stage description with photos if anyone's interested, might be a good way to occupy small grandchildren on rainy summer days if nothing else...

*Art Attack - a TV programme where they show young kids how to make stuff out of junk - you can get the PVA (non poisonous, or something) in most stationers/woolworths etc.

[thewharfonline]

Would love to here how it goes, I always new paper mache things would end up quite hard...but never tried floating any! (and it is kinda paper mache you'e trying!)

I think it definately sounds like an interesting subject, and would love to know more simply because wood isn't the easiest thing for me to get a hold of as the family doesn't always have time to go out and buy wood, so this form of hull sounds like it could work for me! So I'll definately like a few lessons in the subject!

It sounds like a good idea, except for the fact that I don't like PVA in water, with PS Reginald the glue between the hull planks began to get soft again, thus causing the bend in the hull and the non flat base (yes I worked it out) so I wonder if there's a better 'wet' PVA glue...hmmmm (maybe we should invent some!)

Good luck with the boat and make it a paddler! To make it a really simple boat you could add one of those "my first paddler' wheels (like the Reginald) a good old rubber band and piece of wood!

[mjt60a]

PVA in water, yes, as I said, it does seem to 're-soften' so I'll have to come up with a way to waterproof it properly. Maybe if I'd used exterior woodworking adhesive (ie. evo stick in the blue container - I have plenty of that too) it would have worked better. I think people used to use shellac, I had a pond yacht as a kid, made of brown paper strips in this way and it lasted many many years. I expect sanding sealer would work if it has enough coats and is then painted with a decent paint (decent = I believe primer and some matt paints are not waterproof, so I'd use the stuff I used on the shed then matt varnish to dull the finish)
It could have a rubber band drive but I'll probably use a cheap toy motor about 3v, and side wheels, thought I'd make it an 'Aussie' steamer like Pyap as the superstructure looks easier to make in balsa sheet (no complex curved surfaces, cowl vents etc.) also the deck is pretty 'flat' and not much like a sea-going boat...

[Eddy Matthews]

I've often thought about trying a paper or gumstrip hull, but the thing that's always put me off is - How to get a decent finish on that sort of material.... I'd certainly be interested to hear how you manage that (if it's possible?).

[mjt60a]

this is how it looks so far (remember, I'm just trying out the possibilities so it's not a very good shape!)

[Eddy Matthews]

this is how it looks so far (remember, I'm just trying out the possibilities so it's not a very good shape!)

Absolutely Mick - It's the technical details I'm interested in, not the asthetics..

Keep us posted please....

[mjt60a]

did a test on it today, covered it with three layers of sanding sealer, sanded and re-sealed the forward 3/4 of the sides and after drying, left it in the bath for an hour with a roll of solder, couple of tins of paint and the contents of a box full of meccano parts inside (still wasn't quite down to the intended waterline!), this is what I found;
The areas that had been sanded/sealed were completely dry!
The bottom of the hull which was just sealed, not sanded was OK too.
The stern area was getting damp, not actually leaking but becoming soft like when more PVA was applied, in another hour I think it would have failed.
So, what have I learned?
Waterproof adhesive would be better (Duh!)
Non-waterproof PVA  can be sealed with sanding sealer so long as any creases in the paper (almost inevitable on concave/convex surfaces) are sanded down/resealed/sanded down as much as necessary to get a good flat finish.
It would have been better not to include the 'fin' at the back of the keel but to attach it later (like on that Tipstaff in ModelBoats mag) then the stern would be a continuous (though still curved) surface. This was very difficult to paper into the hull surface and is where it was getting wet.
More frames (or should I say some frames as there aren't any) in that area would have made it easier to get a flat surface (it's a bit rippled and difficult to sand - which is why I used that area to 'test to destruction' with only minimal protection).
It could probably be sealed using araldite if I was that bothered...
Certain types of hull (modern tugs, sternwheelers...) don't seem to have one anyway so would be easier to make.
If it dries out OK I'll see if I can correct it by sanding and sealing but if not, no big deal, it was only last weeks paper and some adhesive  

[towboatjoe]

There are a few of us who have used the same idea to cover a styrofoam hull before applying polyester resin because it will eat the styrofoam just like pouring petrol into a styrofoam cup.

Two ideas.... Do what you're doing, but coat it good inside and out with sealer. I built a hull once back in the 70's and I didn't use waterproof glue. Though the hull was sealed inside and out, prolong usage caused it to draw moisture from the water and the glue started deteriorating.

Another idea is to build a paper hull and cover it with 3/4 ounce mat and resin. It would still produce a thin, lightweight, inexpensive hull.

[mjt60a]

....Another idea is to build a paper hull and cover it with 3/4 ounce mat and resin. It would still produce a thin, lightweight, inexpensive hull.

I had considered that, it'd certainly work...
...one of these days I'll show my last attempt to build an unusual hull (ie using unlikely materials - anyone who saw my website, it's the one made with 'chickenwire and fibreglass!' - test hull no 2 - not exactly a sucess but I like to experiment...)

[Eddy Matthews]

Getting back to my concerns about this method of construction Mick - Apart from the issues with wrong glue etc etc, what sort of finish do you think it's possible to get using papier mache as a medium?

I'm concerned about the paper fibres raising up making a smooth finish impossible....

[mjt60a]

I don't think that'd be a problem, on the forward areas which I'd treated with sanding sealer then sanded, treated again etc (just like as if it were balsa) the finish was like glass, if anything I thought it might have to be roughened again to get the paint to stick...

The 'leak' problem appears to have been with me rushing to complete the thing and getting an air bubble or two at the stern area as after it had dried, a hollow could be seen next to the fin where the PVA had disolved. If I'd built it without the fin and added one later it would probably have worked.

This morning I filled the hull with water to see what happens if it sinks (with the inside not sealed, painted or anything)... as expected, the paper layers began to separate after only about 5 mins submerged. After an hour I was able to remove the hull, which was now like papier mache, from the balsa frame. The joins in the frame itself were made using Evo stik 'resin W' exterior woodworking adhesive and were unaffected by being under water for an hour so I'm going to re-cover it but this time using the evo stik.
but first I'm going to make a few alterations to the frame  

[thewharfonline]

Pyap eh!

Nice boat (I've been on her twice!) too bad she runs on diesel now, but thats me going on again. The modern Pyap however does look different to how she used to look, but how you make her is up to you (and I love to see someone outside of our shores attempt and aussie steamer!)  The thing about the pyap is she only needs something like 2'' of water to run...we had 2''6' when we were up there last...yeh we cut it close!

Good luck, and can you make an instruction guide coz I'm gonna make a paper steamer....and a paddly duck!

[mjt60a]

I will photograph every stage this time (as I've now found out what things were wrong with the first design and need to be changed)
First I need to alter the hull slightly - I don't know if you can tell from the photo but the balsa frame in the bottom of the hull needs to be more like the shape of the one around the top (still shorter than the top but not so blunt as it is there, more tapered...), I need to cut off the 'fin' which you can't see there except as a diagonal strip of balsa in the stern so it can be papered over as a continuous surface then glue it back on over the hull 'plating'.
The finished boat won't actually be any existing steamer, I just think something along the lines of Pyap - ie maindeck with cabins/boiler/engineroom and wheelhouse, funnel & cabins above, haven't decided what to call it yet  :?:

[thewharfonline]

Hmmmmm PS Paper? lol mybe not.

Pyap doesn't have an engine room anymore....just a wooden box covering the diesel motor...which makes the air smell funny by the way... and the top deck is now a tourist deck which most of the tourist steamers now have!

(including- melbourne, Rothbury, Pyap, canberra, Pride of the Murray,) so if you want other examples look up those steamers for ideas!

[Eddy Matthews]

haven't decided what to call it yet  :?:

Why not take a leaf out of Ken Warby's book - He's the current World Water Speed Record holder BTW (317.6 MPH). He's an Aussie through and through - The boat he broke the world record in is called "Spirit of Australia" and his current boat which he will attempt to break his own record in later this year, is called "Aussie Spirit"

Both names sound fairly apt for a look-a-like Aussie paddler to me! :-)