Changing my engine from vertical to horizontal

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's  -   - as John mentions.........just talking about viton o-rings,

Yes VITON elastomer was developed Du Pont [which was a Company started in New York by Canadian brothers] [from memory]

VITON when exposed to temperatures @ 315 degrees C or + decomposes & forms HF [hydrofluric acid]   & all MSDS warn about this.... however it is a little overstated as the HF must still be in a liquid state to cause the   of skin which has required amputation to  :boom stop the decay of flesh

VITON sealing is used in many hydraulic cylinders exposed to high temperatures @ the Port Kembla steel works, and in my role as the Contract facilitator for all cylinder repairs allows me to see many burnt degraded VITON seal elements

But we ozies are tough - we don't get bugs   .. we have Vegemite, garlic + red wine

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's......yes just me again  :music .....& John noted

Derek, from your posting earlier today does that mean you have admitted defeat? I know how much you like flywheels

Well firstly John NO...ausies never admit defeat... we are not taught that word at school as we were spared your defeaters like the Vikings, the Romans, the Monguls... just to name a few  :nah

Having said that we are never embarrased to admit we may not know the answer to a question... & my question naturally is WHY do JMC & ANTON & a few other British manufacturers + one German + on YANK install  the fly wheels on multi cylinder 90 degrees opposed [slide valve self starting engines] if they are not necessary :?:

Oh PS.... not grovelling but must agree ... :kewl of your top quality work

[bogstandard]

Hi Derek,
Thanks for the compliment about the workmanship, as I have said before, do the best you can.
Thanks for the full info on viton, but it does go to show that unless you are willing to chase things up you would never know about it. People buy things from engineering suppliers not knowing the full story, and I know that it is very unlikely that people will have an accident, but the chance is always there. But I don't think that they will stick a warning label on every little o-ring sold.
I used to be a maintenance engineer in an electronics company many years ago, just as C.O.S.H.H. was being introduced, it was my job to gather and collate all the information about products being used in the production areas, and the properties of some of the items defied belief, one that instantly springs to mind was a potting agent that was a definite carcinogen and a suspect mutagen, being used openly and no safety gear by young women.
Cyano, epoxy resins and glues, silver solder to name just a few are all in general use by model makers and all have their own horror stories, but how many take any precautions when using them, I openly admit to sometimes not using them, 'Oh its just a quickie' and it won't do me any harm, but a lot of items do have a cumulative effect, and it is when you get to the stage that there is enough in your body, things start to happen.
So be warned, if it says to use gloves, use them, if it says don't breathe in the fumes, if your an ozzie, don't breathe, the rest of us can use face masks or extractors.

Your quote - But we ozies are tough - we don't get bugs  .. we have Vegemite, garlic + red wine - No wonder you won't admit defeat, its not that you're tough, no one will come near you eating and drinking muck like that.

John

[sandy_ACS]

   :computer


Hi Pd's,

Derek asks: -

Having said that we are never embarrased to admit we may not know the answer to a question... & my question naturally is WHY do JMC & ANTON & a few other British manufacturers + one German + on YANK install the fly wheels on multi cylinder 90 degrees opposed [slide valve self starting engines] if they are not necessary

An Honest question, which deserves an equally Honest answer........the reason is it is the most cost effective way for model engine manufacturers to DAMPEN (not eliminate) the shake and vibration created by the engine whilst it is running.

The reason for this shake and vibration is, unfortunately, not an easy subject to go into, at least not in any detail, on a forum such as this.....most of you would have gone to sleep before the first page was finished...   since it is quite a technical marathon.

Briefly though, whilst it is possible to STATICALLY balance a 2 cylinder engine, having cranks at 90 degrees, it is not possible to DYNAMICALLY balance the same. The result is both sideways and for and aft shake.

A heavy flywheel serves to dampen these forces to more acceptable levels.

Full size marine engines are not fitted with flywheels, but that is not to say they do not have some means of achieving the same.....for paddle engines in particular, use was made of the rotating mass provided by the heavy paddlewheels...( hence my statement that John did not need a flywheel)...whilst on screw driven vessels, the necessary rotating mass was often provided by the heavy thrust blocks employed at the propshaft connection, or by incorporating some additional weights elswhere on the moving parts of the engines, also such vessels usually had a very heavy rotating mass in the propshaft/propeller combination, however, the prop was often the source of yet more vibration.....TRICKY !!!!

Large steam engine manufacturers often employed a balancing technique developed by 'Yarrow, Schlick and Tweedy' but this involved some pretty heavy theoretical calculations and specialised manufacturing techniques which, whilst fine for such companies, would not be even vagualy feassible for model engine builders....UNLESS THEY CHARGED 7 figures for their products....

Ok Derek, I hope that helps explain thing a little....for anyone who may be interested...the above mentioned balancing technique is explained in some detail in : -

J.W.M. Sothern, "Verbal" Notes and Sketches for Marine Engineer Officers, 18th Edition, James Munro & Co. Ltd., Glasgow, [no copyright date given], pages A6-A7.

But be warned.....it is quite heavy going.  :twisted:  :twisted:

I can/will expand a bit more on this subject if anyone thinks it of benefit.

Best Regards to all.

Sandy. :vacat  :computer  

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's & I'll respect your comments here Sandy

J.W.M. Sothern, "Verbal" Notes and Sketches for Marine Engineer Officers, but be warned.....it is quite heavy going.  

Sounds like a nice  :no1 book to read on a Sunday morning   warm toast with Vegimite + garlic +Twingings English Breakfast tea   followed by a few glasses/jugs of red ned  :nah.....'read a few pages' then followed by luncheon of medium char grilled kangaroo TAIL W roasted garlic W smoked witchidegrub sauce W a few   to wash it all down  :music - the land of OZ   :bow where we have a seven day :vacat every week

Oh BTW, in European cooking many use Paprika....that red powder....in OZ cooking we use our own variation on that theme of red powder it's called IRON ORE... helps to keep us tough  :yeah ...however to balance this & stop us rusting we need  1/4 of a cup per day of fish oil   PD's...I know this is not a cooking forum but couldn' resist