Pete Baker (Mid-Hudson Valley)

[Pete B.]

Why the North River of CLERMONT?

Early in 2005 I learned of The Saugerties Fulton Steamboat Foundation and their plans to build a second replica of Robert Fulton’s steamboat “The North River of CLERMONT”. After reading their Mission Statement:

Mission Statement
The Saugerties Fulton Steamboat Foundation’s purpose is to build, in Saugerties, a working replica of Robert Fulton’s steamboat, the Clermont, a facility for its maintenance, operation and public access, and a museum which will feature educational programs, permanent and temporary exhibits pertaining to Hudson River maritime history and office space for the foundation’s administration.  The project will raise awareness about the industrial age, which the steamboat fostered, and about the historical, cultural and ecological significance of the Hudson River.  To these goals, the steamboat will create educational, recreational, and economic opportunities throughout the region.

I decided to join the group. My interests in History, Mechanical Design and Education made it a natural. I joined with the understanding that my contributions would be in the area of research and documenting our findings by creating a 3D digital model of the boat in CAD. I was able to get KUBOTEK - USA to donate a copy of their KeyCreator software for my endeavor.

Initially the Group’s enthusiasm was high. The wheels were turning with plans being made for the necessary publicity to acquire funding through private and public donations and grants. With the realization that the project was going to take millions of dollars the enthusiasm waned. Attempts were made to recruit a professional fund raiser. When that failed the Saugerties Fulton Steamboat Foundation all but closed its doors.

Although my enthusiasm was dulled I remained committed to continue my research and the creation of the CAD model. The results of my research are confusing at best. There doesn’t appear to be a concise definition of the CLERMONT. Like others before me I grouped the characteristics and used the most common details to start on my digital model. It’s loosely based on a plastic model offered by the Ideal Toy Company in the 60’s and my interpretation of details found so far. With CAD it is relatively easy to detail as a “work in progress”.  When a detail of the boat is determined to be in error the detail can be modified to reflect the new or confirmed information.

Over the two years or so that I have been working on the North River of CLERMONT project I have collected many images and articles. One article was from POPULAR MECHANICS Magazine with details for building a 12” wooden model of the Clermont. It’s a simple but well detailed design of the Fulton steamboat. It might be used in promoting the 200th anniversary of the first sailing on the North River, now known as the Hudson River.

The Friends of Clermont have organized a celebration that will run from May through December 2007 (www.friendsofclermont.org). In 2009 a more extensive celebration known as the Hudson-Fulton-Champlain Quadricentennial is scheduled (http://www.exploreny400.com). It will highlight the contributions that Hudson, Champlain and Fulton made in the development of the Hudson River Valley.

As my interest evolved I wondered how I could contribute to these celebrations. As a child I played with the little pop-pop steamboats. That memory seemed to be the natural connection to the North River that I was looking for. About that same time I came across the Yahoo Group, pop-pop steamboats, so I joined. The ideas from the message board sparked thoughts of developing a pop-pop Clermont. The task at hand then became one of creating a plan for designing a marketable boat.

The Popular Mechanic Clermont is approximately the right size for a pop-pop. The details are sufficient enough to be used in the design of a tin boat.  I am looking at a scale of 1/8” to 1’. That would put the model length at approximately 16”. The width or beam would be at a slightly larger scale to accommodate the pop-pop engine coil and burner. My first goal is to build a prototype. Once that working model is designed and running a possible marketing scheme will have to be looked at. That’s beyond my area of expertise. I know what is involved but don’t know how to get there from here. For that I need help. Having discussed options we have pretty much decided that market outlets would be Museum shops and others with nautical themes. The Internet was also mentioned. Where do I/we go from here? I’m looking for suggestions.

I have tried to define my interest in the North River Steamboat. Basically it boils down to History and mechanical things. If you share those interests I invite you to join me in developing the CLERMONT pop-pop. Can you help?

[Eddy Matthews]

An interesting introduction Pete, thanks....

I can see a number of potential problems with a pop-pop version of a paddler though - I certainly don't wish to put you off, but a few things spring to mind.

Firstly you need to create a hull design that can be pressed from one piece of material easily - To keep costs to a minimum. That may need some reworking of your drawings particularly at the stern.

Second, a pop-pop has very limited power - You have a model 16" long with paddlewheels which are going to create a lot of drag, even if they are allowed to freewheel. The drag may be too much for the engine?

Thirdly, the paddlewheels themselves are going to need thinking about to allow them to be made easily - Again to keep costs down.

That's without getting into the problems of finding a manufacturer, and marketing them in enough numbers to make it worthwhile...

Perhaps someone with more knowledge than me can help with advice on the manufacturing and marketing side of things?

[Pete B.]

Hi Eddy,

I have to qualify my intro. It was a quick cut & paste from something I put together for the pop-pop group.  I decided that it mostly fits in with the Paddleduck's theme so I used it.

All of you thoughts on a pop-pop paddler are valid. Fortunately they have not come as surprises as I have them all listed as possible issues. I look at it as "If you don't try, you won't know"!. My primary goal is to design a copper and brass model of the North River for display. The pop-pop engine is a "what if" scenario. It would end up being a one of a kind boat.

The marketing idea of a pop-pop North River was born out of discussions in the Pop-pop steamboat group. We all realize that cost and details would be an issue in marketing. My boat above is really an adjunct to the smaller version.

There are pop-pop "North Rivers" from a German Company by the name of TUCHER & WALTHER. It sold for over $150. I also found an antique paddler made by WELLS. Its wheel design would create less drag and still be representative. See attachments.

You may be thinking of the conventional diaphgm pop-pop engine. There are other designs that provide more thrust such as the coiled tube. I have a pop-pop friend that has a 5' long pop-pop made out of wood. He and members of a club developed barrel and hammer design engines that develop enough thrust to propel a substantial boat. Their successes fuel my fire.