Australian rivers

[Eddy Matthews]

Why do you think you have to register to get a water tank! You're right, making a buck.

However, we are still a commonwealth so maybe mother england could supply us with some help.

It might not be too far out of the question.

Don't expect to get the help for nothing though - We have 17.5% VAT (purchase tax) on everything we buy, petrol/diesel is taxed at over 80% (currently over £5 - $13 US per gallon)..... Come to the glorious UK and get ripped off by the government!!

Why do you think so many brits are leaving the country?

I rest my case m'lud....

[derekwarner_decoy]

wow PD's.......petrol (currently over £5 - $13 US per gallon) in the UK ....... ...that sure ain't duck feed is!!!!!!!!!! 

[Roderick Smith]

There are already several major pipelines in Australia:
* Perth - Kalgoorlie.  The dry mining centre was fed from water dammed in Darling Ranges, and piped for 600 km.  On opening day, nothing happened when the tap was turned on.  The engineer (O'Connor?) committed suicide.  Within hours, the water was flowing.
* Murray Water is pumped to serve Eyre Peninsula (Whyalla), Adelaide, and south-east SA.
* The Snowy scheme of the 1950s diverted coastal water into the inland (the Murray system) to add to the stock of water for irrigation.  It was used for electricity generation on the way.

Responding to drought, there have been several pipeline proposals.
* Undersea from Tasmania to Victoria.  However, Tas. has had it own dry spells.  In one year it had to hire a ship as a power station for Hobart to eke out depleted hydroelectric supplies.
* Goulburn River (a Murray tributary) to Melbourne.  That is tied to water uses in other states to keep the Murray balance.  NSW was very profligate in allocating water rights, with large tracts of cotton and rice.  Qld also sqanders water on cotton.
* Brisbane has only just had its storages filled after prolonged shortages.  A short pipeline would connect Brisbane's supply to Gold Coast.  Another short one was being rushed from nearer central Queensland.  A much longer one was proposed from the far north.
* A very ambitious pipeline would connect far north-west WA to Perth and to southern states.  AFAIK this one is doomed technically: too much energy would go into pumping.
* Victoria is looking at a desalination plant.  These are usually regarded as too energy inefficient.
* Short-term droughts have been ameliorated with trainloads of water in earlier years, notably Broken Hill before the Menindee Lakes (Darling River) scheme was completed.

Meanwhile, not making headlines, more efficient reticulation and irrigation practices are being put in place.  The whole west Victorian scheme has been moved from channels into pipes.  Savings of 20% of water not being lost to evaporation are predicted/achieved.

The original Murray Darling scheme was a three state agreement (SA, Vic. & NSW); Queensland (the source of much water) was not a party.  The scheme was to promote irrigation and navigation.  Only 13 of the planned 26 locks were completed, and the spacing of locks 6 & 7 did not meet the design goal (each lock was to be accessible from the pool of the one below it).  Yarrawonga was built without a lock; Chowilla (aborted) would have been built without a lock; the proposed Wellington weir would be built without a lock.  The nation's population has grown vastly since then; the biggest three cities hold over half of the national population.  Green issues are loomed: NSW leaves snags in the river to encourage native fish for recreational fishermen; it refuses to dredge critical links between otherwise-navigable reaches.  The formerly-navigable reaches of the Murrumbidgee and Darling are blocked in eight places with weirs without locks.  Victoria wants to extract water from the Murray to put it back into the Snowy for environmental flows.  The only boating which politicians see is local waterskiing, not river voyaging.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[lner]

Just in case anyone is interested I have some photos taken recently of Lake Carlet about 25km upstream from Mannum. I also have a couple of recent photos of the level in the river itself too!

The water level has been dropping quite consistently to the point that water is no longer able to flow in or out and the fish have been dying.

This is standing in the lake looking out at the inlet from the River Murray. This was taken about two weeks ago and although there is still water in the deeper parts of the lake behind the photographer, this is a particularly depressing photo.


This photo is standing near the inlet looking into the lake.  Taken about six months ago, the extra water is quite obvious.  The line of rocks in the foreground is a man-made wall to attempt to regulate the flow into and out of the lake.  At normal water levels it is possible (not necessarily advisable) to drive a ski boat or dinghy over this wall without hitting.

I am a member of many forums, and cant remember the protocols re photos without going hunting.  If it is preferred these photos get uploaded to the photo section let me know and I will gladly oblige and delete them from here.

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's ......& thanks Martin for these horrific snaps ....lets hope our new PM {when he gets back from visiting QE11} will consider the plight of our national waterway....but don't hold your breath

......I know this in not a political forum ...but why does the USA prohibit the growing of cotton or rice in certain waterways?

cause it uses all the bloody water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...you ding bat Parliamentarians

[Red_Hamish]

Hello all, well lner I agree the sights you've shown are very distressing to see even from this distance. It really does not bode well for the continuity of population of these sparsely wet and semi-arid areas. Let's all hope the politicians see some sense and stop  any irrigation to allow the river and lakes to recover even a small amount in the near future. Ok I agree that this will probably have a devastating effect on those farmers who rely on irrigation for their crops but you've got to ask "at what price? "The consequences are truly scary if the environment is allowed to rule like an avenging monster. Martin get onto your local politician and make him see sense!

Derek we should censor you a little for the politico outburst but you're a reasonably moderate man I think so I won't this time  and will give you a similar example.

When asked why Britains' oil reserves are running low in the North Sea a sage old man replied "It is because all of the dipsticks are in Westminster and not the North Sea, where they'd be better suited and we'd be better off"

cheers

Jim

[lner]

Trust me, the pollies are all having their own fights over this one.  The latest today is that NSW are talking about legalizing the growing of hemp to use in the manufacture of various texiles to minimize the growing of cotton further up the river system!!!!

The funny thing is hearing people further upstream saying they are not noticing a huge difference.  That I guess is the benefit of being upstream from the locks

[Roderick Smith]

I am putting a series on tourist cruises here, rather than with the specific boats involved.  There is a good river map on p1 of this thread.

Starting by 1915, and continuing to about 1951, the big paddlesteamers were used for tourist cruises, often in conjunction with the railway systems.  Round trips were provided from Melbourne and Adelaide, and connections were available from Sydney (road from Albury to Echuca).
The river ports were Echuca (1864), Swan Hill (1890s), Mildura (~1903), Renmark (late 1920s), Morgan (1870s) and Murray Bridge (1880s).  All but Renmark had rail connections linking the main station and the wharf.  Because of the lake crossing, Milang and Goolwa seem not to have been served by tourist cruises.

My starting point has been a series of travel posters put out by Victorian Railways.  I have yet to find links to the full set.  Here are three:
www.prov.vic.gov.au/images/12903/12903-p00001-000642-030.asp PS Marion
www.prov.vic.gov.au/images/12903/12903-p00001-000657-030.asp PS Gem
www.prov.vic.gov.au/images/12903/12903-p00001-000779-050.asp PS Marion
Other researchers are working on a possible dating.  While not purely art-deco, I suspect that the posters are not
1920s, and far more likely to be 1938-48.

Paddlesteamers had always carried passengers, but far more as route service.
Tourism (in conjunction with railway connections) had been promoted
from at least 1915, and possibly in all earlier decades.

Before there was a Melbourne - Adelaide railway, the river route was promoted as
safer than the sea route (the notorious shipwreck coast) and more comfortable
than horse vehicles: train to Echuca, paddlesteamer to Morgan, train to
Adelaide.

As at 1915, Gem Navigation Company was advertising two schedules:
* Murray Bridge - Renmark & return over Wed.-Tues.
* Morgan - Mildura & return over Sat.-Fri.
Those boats must have been flying (and voyaging all night): those running times
were much faster than I can achieve in my own cruising launch.

After reorganisation, the company was offering tourist services from Melbourne
via Echuca to Adelaide from 1916.
* Marion (which features in at least one of the posters): Echuca - Murray
Bridge.
* Gem: Mildura - Morgan.
* Ruby: Renmark - Murray Bridge.
It is interesting that Ruby was in the lower reach, not the upper, as it had the
shallowest draft.
This era was at the commencement of the construction of locks & weirs; most were
completed in the 1920s, with a couple lingering into the 1930s.

After another reorganisation in 1919, one aim was to provide passenger services
in conjunction with tourist bureaus in NSW, Vic. & SA. Complex mix & match
itineries were available, including Morgan to Renmark & return (no railway to
Renmark yet), and Adelaide - Melbourne Adelaide via a choice of Swan Hill or
Mildura.
It seems that the lack of reliable water, which plagued PV Coonawarra in the
1950s, was a factor in scheduling. However, Marion was usually slipped at
Echuca, so must have made at least occasional voyages.

Another of the big passenger steamers, PS Ellen (which my father recalled at
Swan Hill in his teenage years in the early 1920s) was stripped and sold in
1926.

The late 1920s included regular Christmas - New Year holiday voyages.
Ruby & Marion ran Morgan - Swan Hill; Gem ran Morgan - Mildura.
The company was feeling the loss of freight revenue, with former traffic now
being railed out of Balranald.

1934: a motor service was established between Albury and Echuca, giving the
river trade access to the Sydney market.
The program was then split into Echuca - Mildura (Marion), connecting with
Mildura - Morgan (Gem).
The spare vessel was Renmark, not Ruby (which was sold in 1939).

They heyday seems to be the 1940s: every year was busy. Cruises continued until
Gem was damaged (1948) and Marion was withdrawn (1951).

From the 1929 VR brochure (a friend has the 1931 one, which was similar):
The season ran from July to November.
Various round trips from Melbourne were available, based on Swan Hill - Mildura
- Morgan, with rail links Melbourne - Swan Hill, Melbourne - Mildura, and
Melbourne - Adelaide - Morgan.
Only the paddlesteamer schedules were shown.
Interestingly, all photos (the Victorian and the SA reaches) feature PS Ruby,
and not the other two survivors of the former big four.
Here is just part of the total program:
Swan Hill dep. Tuesday night (connect with day train from Melbourne).
Mildura arr. Thursday afternoon (presumably an overnight train to Melbourne as
at 1929).
320 miles [510 km] in about 40 h, 13 km/h.
Mildura dep. Friday late night.
Swan Hill arr. Monday night. [presumably stay on board, to leave on Tuesday's
day train].
Clearly this was a bit slower than the downstream voyage.

Today, this reach is one of the hard ones: the notorious Bitch & Pup rapids, and lots
of shallow running out of the influence of locks and weirs.
Euston Weir gives good depth for about 60-80 km upstream; Mildura Weir gives
good depth to Karadoc or Colignan; upstream from there are several nasty rock
bars. In 2009-10, a day boat is making public voyages: 8 days Echuca to
Mildura, with bus return. Just the Swan Hill - Mildura stretch takes 5 days:
Swan Hill - Tooleybuc - Euston - Colignan - Mildura.

1922 train times:
Melbourne 8.20; Swan Hill 17.20
Swan Hill 12.10; Melbourne 22.55.
Melbourne 17.16; Mildura 8.40
Mildura 7.30; Melbourne 22.00
I don't know if this hybrid was still in force in 1929. The boat didn't leave
Mildura downstream until 10.00 Friday, do possibly staying aboard for the night was an
option.

Oct.1933 tmes:
Melbourne 7.50; Swan Hill 17.20.
Swan Hill 11.40; Melbourne 22.30
Melbourne dep. Mon., Wed., Fri., Sat. overnight to Mildura, so no Friday morning
connection. Perhaps boat schedules had changed then?
Mildura dep. Mon., Wed., Thurs. & Fri., overnight to Melbourne: connection possible.

I haven't yet looked at the connections for the Mildura - Morgan boats.

References:
Lots are available by entering the relevant names into the search box in the Paddleducks site:
Oldest: Ruby, Gem, Marion, Ellen, Renmark, Pearl
Newer: Murrumbidgee, Coonawarra
Newest Murray Princess, Murray River Queen, Murray Explorer, Proud Mary, Emmylou, Hero

Navigation upstream of Echuca: www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3918.0

Gwenda Painter PS Marion; its life and times.

Books on Gem and on Coonawarra, not checked yet.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[lner]

This is standing in the lake looking out at the inlet from the River Murray. This was taken about two weeks ago and although there is still water in the deeper parts of the lake behind the photographer, this is a particularly depressing photo.

Just for an brief update, there is now no water whatsoever in the lake. Bearing in mind that the lake is approx 8.5km long.  Although for the most part it is not particularly deep that is still a hell of a lot of water which is now AWOL.

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=lake+carlet&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=56.398622,76.992187&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Lake+Carlet+SA&ll=-34.868187,139.497185&spn=0.103379,0.150375&t=h&z=13

This is what it should look like and I will post a more recent photo shortly.

Martin

[chloes mate]

Since Federation (1901)there has been 87 committees and countless sub-committees,all with their snort in the trough.The only thing that they have managed to agree on,is that the Murray -Darling basin is a river system.
Wrong,today the system is basically a drain in dire need of a good clean.The blame game is played out along the entire length of the system.Fact of life,the river can not sustain the high water usuage for agriculture,the Green movement attitude to the river and the removal of snags etc.The government grab for cash in allocating water lic's.
Sadly I am personally worried about the legacy that I am leaving my grandchildren.