CSAY

[Roderick Smith]

It isn't hard to see why locals love this waterway, even after paddlesteamers have been withdrawn.
On Wed.31.5.06 I started at Glasgow Central around 6.00 to Wemyss Bay, arriving at 6.59.
There I caught CalMac MV Juno at 7.15.
The weather was sunny; the water was calm.
We crossed MV Bute.
The return crossing arrived at Wemyss Bay at 8.35; I connected to an 8.50 train (photo in my previous post).
I changed at Port Glasgow, 9.11-43, and arrived at Gourock at 9.57.  The station hadn't been scrapped totally (as I hinted in the earlier post): the ornate curving verandah canopies remained.
I boarded MV Rover, run by Clyde Marine, for the 10.05 crossing via Kilcreggan to Helensburgh.  This was also a sunny and pleasant crossing.
CalMac MV Saturn was seen.
From Helensburgh I connected into an 11.10 to Glasgow Central, then to a 12.00 to Edinburgh, and on to York and Harrogate for the evening.

Today I enclose a shot taken through the window of the covered walkway at Wemyss Bay.  I chose this so that the modern boat was small in the view: with minimum photoshop skill you can rub it out, and replace it with your favourite Clyde paddlesteamer.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
'Speed bonny boat, like a bird on the foot, over the sea to Bute...'

[Roderick Smith]

I checked my notes and photos from my earlier trip to Wemyss Bay (1995-96).  On that occasion, I had only a couple of minutes there, and photographed only the train at the curved platform.

I enclose two photos from May 06.  Neither is a paddlesteamer, but these are the successors on two famous routes.

The first shows MV Bute viewed from MV Juno, with Rothesay in the background.
The second shows MV Rover leaving Helensburgh; I guess that the civilisation in the distance is Gourock.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria
'The far Coolins have put a spell on me...'

[Waverley]

There are many interlocking issues here.
I am surprised that the Caley didn't win the fight for Rothesay traffic hands down: it had the best terminal, and the shortest crossing (important for speed, and for stomachs when the weather cut rough).  An express train with a direct connection should have thrashed the opposition.

Hi again, Roderick and all.

This discussion could run and run...

My family (1950's and 1960's) never went to Rothesay or anywhere else on the Coast via Wemyss Bay.   We went via Gourock or preferrably Craigendoran or all the way from Glasgow - that way you got a longer sail and we all loved being afloat.   And if timed right, and it usually was, we got to sail in a paddler or turbine rather than a diesel car ferry. Coming back, however with tired and fracfious children, he was inclined to use Wemyss Bay as the fastest means of getting the family home.

It helped that the return fare from Glasgow to most resorts did not depend on the route - it cost the same via Wemyss Bay or Craigendoran even though one was thiry minute sail and the other closer to two hours. (For completeness this did not apply to the all-the-way sailing on QUEEN MARY II from Glasgow, but you could get "steamer out - train home" returns at a discount)

The passenger's starting point was also significant. The three railways all had their own Glasgow stations (North Britsh at Queen Street, Caledonian at Central and Glasgow & South Western at the now closed St Enoch) - if you worked near Queen Street you would not necessarily save much time by walking to Central when their was an NBR train next door, even though the journey took longer.   And North bank residents in locations such as Clydebank and Dumbarton had no real choice but to use Craigendoran.

In earlier times the "status" of Gourock also had a bearing on the matter.  I'll say more on this in a later post but from 1919 on till 1951 (the same general pattern was provided prior to 1914 as well, but I have fewer details) there were always two paddlers on the "basic" ferry rosters - it might have made obvious sense to have one of these shuttling back and forawrds from Gourock to Dunoon and the other from Wemyss Bay to Rothesay, like the car ferries have done since their introduction.  In practise, however, each would make two or three Rothesay - Dunoon - Gourock trips, and two or three Rothesay - Wemyss Bay trips.  It was an absolutely traditional service pattern, made sure that "head office" in Gourock saw all the fleet and meant that both Rothesay and especially Dunoon had a service far less frequent than they would have liked - it was almost as frequent a service from Dunoon to Rothesay as it was from Dunoon to Glasgow.

[These were not the only through boats of course, the excursion steamers to such destinations as Arran, Inveraray and Campbeltown, also sailed from Gourock to Rothesay, sometimes via Wemyss Bay for a train connection, while the Craigendoran vessels also called at Gourock when their services were integrated with the Caley steamers in 1950, shortly after railway nationalization]


In case anybody is wondering where the paddlers bave gone from this post, the two vessels involved on these duties in 1949 were CALEDONIA and JUPITER - illustrated from commercial postcards courtesy of friendly ebay vendors as I have no scanner and highly unlikely to be copyright.

Regards

David

[Waverley]

This post is a follow up to an earlier one of mine, when I mentioned express steamers and racing.

One of the relatively unusual aspects of the Clyde was the business traffic, that lasted for a surprisingly long time.

From early days (as far back as the mid nineteenth century at least) almost any businessman in Glasgow who could afford it would rent a house on the Coast for the summer, and decamp there for up to six months with wife, children and quite possibly servants.  

While the family enjoyed their holiday, Father still had to work.  Depending on his circumstances he had two choices.

He went up to Glasgow on Monday morning (no Sunday boats, of coursd) and returned on Saturday afternoon or evening (still a six day week, then). Monday mornings saw enhanced early morning services - Williamson says the normal commuter runs in the morning to the three up-firth piers (Gourock, Greenock Princes Pier and Craigendoran) involved 8 arrivals, but their were 11 on Mondays. The last of these "death runs" was from Brodick in Arran - it was allocated to WAVERLEY in (I think) 1973, her last season before preservation - it must have been a total waste of money as she had to run empty to Brodick, then empty again from Ardrossan back to Gourock, and all for the benefit of a handful of passengers.

Or Father commuted on a daily basis. In this case he was probably a fairly senior man on a salary (or owned the company) - as he had to leave work far earlier than the "staff" - as we shall see soon.

What the three railways had here (North British fron Craigendoran, Caledonian from Gourock and Wemyss Bay and Glasgow and South Western from Greenock Princes Pier (and to a lesser extent the minor railheads as well)) was a captive but well heeled and demanding traffic - first class season ticket holders expect to be spoiled with the best possible service - and are quick to voice their discontent with letters of complaint to management and the local press if their expectations are not met.

So there were express services in the morning - but the ones which are really a part of the steamer lore are the ones back in the evening.  Here, as the "winning post" was a pier, it was always possible to identify the winner and some of the races are legendary.

The traditional departure time for the evening express service was 16:00 (or as I have to say in this post, 4pm).   This dates back to the 1850's at least when the various RUBY's and ROThESAY CASTLEs and the manic Captain Price indulged in what was probably the most vicious and irresponsible racing of all (see Andrew McQueen - "Echoes of Old Clyde Paddle Wheels"- a fascinating and atmospheric book)

And 4pm remained the departure time from Glasgow for the express services after the railways were fully developed - as I said above, Father as commuter had to be a senior man - who else could leave work in Victorian times before 4pm?

I hope it will interest some to see what was on offer to Father in those days. The oldest timetable I possess is the 1922 summer edition of Bradshaw (for US readers, our equvalent of the "Official Guide") [and if anybody on here can send me scans or photo copies of any pre world war 1 clyde steamer timetables he will have my undying gratitude].

This is what was on offer (I am not going to list the intermediate calls)

NORTH BRITISH.

The boat train left Queen Street at 16:00 and arrived Craigendoran at 1638.  Departure times are not given and I suspect that the boats left as soon as passengers were aboard.

WAVERLEY was the Rothesay steamer - she was due to arrive Rothesay at 18:00

In addition DANDIE DINMONT connected for Kilmun in the Holy Loch, and LUCY ASHTON for Clynder in the Gare Loch.


GLASGOW and SOUTH WESTERN

The boat train left St Enoch at 16:03 - again no departure times are given from Greenock (Princes Pier)

MERCURY was the Rothesay steamer - she was due in at 18:05. She made the same calls as WAVERLEY and one can be quite sure that every attempt would be made to get to Rothesay first - WAVERLEY and MERCURY had been two real flyers as built, but war service hadn't helped either of them.

In addition, CALEDONIA left for Kilmun in the Holy Loch in direct competition with DANDIE DINMONT.

CALEDONIAN

Due to war losses and co-operation with the Sou West, their was no longer an equivalent (and totally unnecessary) service from Gourock at this time.

What the Caley did offer was 16:30 from Glasgow Central to Wemyss Bay. This arrived at 17:24 - again no departure time.

The Rothesay steamer was one of the paddlers DUCHESS OF FIFE or DUCHESS OF ROTHESAY - they changed duties each week, I believe. (this was a part of the "basic" roster discussed in the previous post).
She was due into Rothesay at 18:00.

In addition, MARCHIONESS OF BREADALBANE sailed for Largs and Millport.




So we have three express steamers all due at Rothesay between 18:00 and 18:05 - no problem there as Rothesay had three berths - but all three vessels had to call at Craigmore 5 minutes before, and there is only one berth there - must have been fun to watch.

The other thing has just occurred to me - most of those boats must have been almost empty. The combined capacity of the three NBR steamers, for example, was in the region of 4000 passengers - capacity of the boat train 1000 or less.


Pictures attached with the same caveats as previous post.  The WAVERLEY and MERCURY postcards are pre war - WAVERLEY appears to  be going flat out - the one of DUCHESS OF ROTHESAY is slightly unusual - she has the "tartan lum" - the buff, red and black funnel scheme introduced by the LMS after railway amalgamation, universally hated as a nasty compromise and abandoned in 1925 - and she appears to be carrying winter boarding - protection for saloon windows carried in bad weather conditions.

Regards

David

[AlistairD]

Its been a couple of weeks since I posted a  Clyde steamer photo and history
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 This is QUEEN EMPRESS built fore the Williamson fleet in 1912  by Murdoch and Murray of Port Glasgow. She was built for all-the-way sailings  from Glasgow to the Clyde Coast resorts, and was an improved DUCHESS OF FIFE  with the main deck plated in right up to the bow. She had compound diagonal  engines by Rankin and Blackmore of Greenock, which are similar, although larger  than, those installed in MAID OF THE LOCH on Loch Lomond 41 year  later.
 After only a couple of seasons service the First World War  intervened, She was used as a troopship and then as a minesweeper and the  Admiralty held onto her after the war, when she went to Archangel to support the  White Russian forces there. She did not return to the Clyde until  1920.
 In the thirties she also offered long day excursions from  Dunoon and Helensburgh, e.g. to Girvan and a cruise round Ailsa Craig, to  Campbeltown or to Inveraray.
 In October 1935, her owners were taken over by the London  Midland and Scottish Railway and she was used on services in the Firth, gaining  Caledonian Steam Packet colours in 1938. In 1939 she was on the Wemyss Bay and  Rothesay to Millport service, and served her country again as a minespeeper in  the 1939-1945 war. After this she was not reconditioned for civilian service and  was broken up in 1946
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 Alistair
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