PS Adelaide...2007 New Construction - [Richard Bundy]

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's - Richard.... if you progress a new model of PS Adelaide.... the detail should be here on this new thread as above - self asssistance may be required in that you can go back & import previous postings on PS Adelaide back into your new folder/ thread - you could always start your new Adelaide folder in the PHOTO :kewl  GALLERY

One of the points made by Sean is that Adelaide was converted   from ROUNDISH to SQUARISH paddle box profiles..... & then back again.....

Question for Sean......why was this so :?: ... I have a snap of Adelaide with port side round & the stdb being encased as  squarish if needed - Derek
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Quote from Richard....

Pictures of the PS Adelaide would FANTASTIC and the more the merrier! Would it be alright to post them in here or should I start another thread on the building of the PS Adelaide? I'm guessing pictures of the Adelaide would be as it is today with the round paddle guards and lowered rear cabin. My current thinking would be to build it in this form as it was originally built and not the modified square box version.

[thewharfonline]

Change of company, change of working role. The use of square boxes was to enable more stock and cargo t be carried on board the boat.

Sunken cabins can be very hot because of the engine, an above deck cabin is cooler as such.

Change of owner might of just liked the square wheel boxes too!

[bundyrap]

Wow Derek a new thread on building the PS Adelaide. Guess I have to build one now!

I just got the Float-a-Boat plans back from photo shop today 150% bigger. These plans are for 1924 -85 square box version which is not what I want to build but most of it should be useful. I would like to build her with round boxes, low rear cabin and the big steam winch up front.

What I really need now are lots of photos - upclose detailed photos rather than postcard shots. A trip to Echuca is not really possible in the near future with work commitments (3 day drive from Queensland?) so I'm hopeing there are other sorces to build from. I got onto the Port of Echuca gift shop page Sean and there are 2 books one is the Paddlesteamer Adelaide and the other is Murray Darling Paddleboats. I've order both of these but do they have plans for the Adelaide as a seperate item?

The boat I plan to build will be 1/16th scale , 1.5m long. Very rough sums say a displacement in the 10 -15kg range. I'm thinking of planking her in 2mm ply and building layers of fibreglass inside for strength and water proofing. This would give the look of the real planks on the outside but with the functionality of fibreglass. Any thoughts?

I've a had a play making a paddle wheel from 2mm ply on the CNC. The full size ones look flimsy, light constructions so I don't want to over engineer the model ones. I've simplified the shape by not tapering the spokes into the hub the reason being stronger like this, easier to make and they are not really seen when finished. Too much 'scale builders licence' do you think? If the ply ones aren't strong enough I could cut them from polycarbonate sheet maybe. To make them from brass would make each one about 250grams but I could then build in the 'crank' into the hubs. Again any thoughts?

Richard

[thewharfonline]

Just uploaded a stack of pictures of Adelaide into my photo collections. One of square box but the rest all round box. Tried to get as many angles and as close to detail as possible. I have no engine shots in my collection. Not all my photos are on there but all the most detailed ones are there, and interesting angles etc.

Plans are not in either of those books, give the Port a call and they should be able to send the plans to you.

Hopefully they are of some assistance.

[thewharfonline]

1 thing I ask: Please Please Please paint in traditional colours of light creme and brown, not the new 'Echuca' colours!

Cheers!
Sean

Oh thought I'd add the planking looks good, Adelaide's wheels are 14foot in diameter so they're quite large, and what may appear 'flimsy' is far from, the real ones are made from strong metal and look more sturdy than you'd think.

There's an interesting photo in the Adelaide book (which myself and Mick can vouch for it's goo history as I sent him a copy) of the Port shipwrights attaching the wheels to the hub...very good photo, definately interesting.

Both good books you've purchased. Do you own ships of the inland rivers..."the bible" of Murray paddlers? You can get that from the Port too. The plans used to hang on the exit doors with a sign of their prices, A.A was the cheapest (there's not much to her) Pev and Adelaide were much more detailed. Definately give the Port a Call

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hey Sean --- :kewl of PS Adelaide..... .jpg ID1013 shows the  :ohno squarish paddle boxs, but also confirms a steam winch on the foredeck... could this have been in her 1963 period @ Hopwood Gardens Echuca  :?:

Derek

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's - Richard... just   ... 2 mm thick ply planks - ply is a inflexible material & resists gentle sanding
 :idea: - consider going to your local BUNNINGS store & purchasing 10 mm thick X 100 wide random groove cedar panneling

This material [Canadian] is ...:-
1) fine grained, beautifully differing in colour or hue
2) easily saw ripped into approx 3 mm thick planks
3) loves water for steam bending
4) easily sandable for tapering & sectioning plank lengths prior to gluing
5) with the internal roughness after planking accepts the internal coating of glass cloth epoxy resin
6)   & then sands well with minimal effort  

I understand that cedar is technically a soft material compared to say marine ply. but the reinforcement you have installed inboard will provide the insurance you require

Please consider........ as if you use 2mm ply, you will need 1Kg of automotive KARFIL bog to straighten out the mess  :rant    :sob Derek

[thewharfonline]

Hey Sean --- :kewl of PS Adelaide..... .jpg ID1013 shows the  :ohno squarish paddle boxs, but also confirms a steam winch on the foredeck... could this have been in her 1963 period @ Hopwood Gardens Echuca  :?:

Derek

Yes it is in Hopwood. It's not my photo but my Mum's old boss' who said I could use the photo, so there it appears.

Still long before restoration, square boxes with winch, and the walkover bridge over the engine pit.

[Bill Hudson]

.....
 :idea: - consider going to your local BUNNINGS store & purchasing 10 mm thick X 100 wide random groove cedar panneling

This material [Canadian] is ...:-
1) fine grained, beautifully differing in colour or hue
2) easily saw ripped into approx 3 mm thick planks
3) loves water for steam bending
4) easily sandable for tapering & sectioning plank lengths prior to gluing
5) with the internal roughness after planking accepts the internal coating of glass cloth epoxy resin
6)   & then sands well with minimal effort  

I understand that cedar is technically a soft material compared to say marine ply. but the reinforcement you have installed inboard will provide the insurance you require

I agree with Derek.  Cedar is really a good material for planking model boats.  Especially tight grained red cedar.  Fence board cedar is usually too course grained.  Go for finish grade cedar. Pick out flat grained boards so when you rip it the planks will have vertical grain.  The VG planks bend easier.   I use a planer (finish blade with no set) saw blade to rip my wood into 1/16" (1.59 mm)- 1/8" (3 mm) thick.  I prefer to go the 1/16" thick route as it gives me less problems in bending.  I also can fit the planks closer together with out too much beveling of the edges.  The plank thickness will, of course, depend on the frame spacings.  Cedar makes a really light weight hull.  You can fiberglass the inside and leave the outside natural of fiberglass both sides and paint it.  It makes a very strong, and beautiful  hull.

Bill

[bundyrap]

Thanks guys for all the info and a very big THANKS for all those pics Sean.  Lots and lots to think about there.

This is just quickie reply before heading out to work ( on Australia Day!).

Thanks Again

Richard

[thewharfonline]

Hey any time Richard, I hope your project works out in the end!
Happy Australia Day Aussies and I have to work too!

Just a quick on the side note to aussies in Victoria: The Political Cartoon in the Herald Sun is a paddle steamer with John Howard at the helm towing the other state premiers in a row boat. Nice boost for us paddler fans on Australia day.

Sorry for that slight off topic there.

You musn't forget the meat safe Richard, very important part of the Adelaide. The original is located at the Historical Society Museum. I'm pretty sure the steam whinch is located somewhere at the Port too...can't remember exactly where.

The newly refurbished cargo shed has a 'Philadelphia' wheel house, modelled on the Adelaide though. It has her throttle and forward and revers control in there to try out (not that you can move the latter) and of course her wheel...however if you were going with that for wheel accuracy I don't think I would trust it, all controls are ound behind the wheel in the display and would make it a tangle to drive the boat.

[bundyrap]

I'm heading off to Bunnings this morning to see what cedar I can find there. I was looking at ply because I built a Chris Craft Barrel Back a few years ago which was double planked with ply as the first layer and mahogany as the finish and I found it really nice to work with.
 
I must admit that my only experience with cedar so far was building a sauna 3 or 4 years ago and then using the left-overs to build a  quarter scale Tiger Moth. Not sure if this is same stuff we are talking about. Sure has a nice smell though.
 
I've nearly got the frame together after a few hours on the computer cleaning lines up. The more I use this CNC thing the more I wonder how I coped with out it. It allows you to build almost as quick as you can think up ideas with repeatable accuracy I could only dream of with the old scroll saw.
 
Off to Bunnings !
 
Richard

[Eddy Matthews]

Please tell us more about the CNC machine Richard, who makes it, how much does it cost etc etc?

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hey Bundy - please tell us the hull frames shown are only templates for the real one's that will be 10 mm thick minimium

Don't make the mistake I made  :ohno   by using 10  mm thick MDF board for Decoys hull frames - a relatively inexpensive material is again the random groove cedar - glue two sections together & hey presto you have the 200 mm high profile required & easly sandable for the required frame bevelling & profiling - MDF is literally SH*T material - compressive strength is great, will stay square but to sand is an issue & has ZERO strength when nailing into the "end grain" - approx 280 holes were drilled for the 0.95 mm planking pins for Decoy

Considering that you intend to glass cloth & epoxy resin the hull internals, common PVA [Aquadere] will be fine for the planking in conjuction with the bronze planking pins

The "Modelers Shipyard" in Nowra [NSW] sell planking screw pins - check their WEB site as these are an invaluable aid  :bow when   - another gluing aid are those plastic tong type clamps [five for $ 2.00] at the two dollar shop

SUPAglu was an invention between NASA & the need to glu skin back together in WAR zones   ...it bonds materials but has no strength - don't use it  

Lastly for stability when planking, you may wish to screw & glue your hull frames to the center keel [guessed as 25X10] as shown, and also with the hull frames inverted, secure say 4 of the hull frames back down to a flat surface - this will assist in ensuring that the final hull will be true, square & symetrical......remember ....1 plank on one side, then repeat... 1 mirror reverse plank on the other side  :luck

  - next time you go to Bunnings again, check out the 50 Ml bottles of Feast Watson Proof Tint....beautiful natural earthy translucent tones for cedar - you could also consider pre-staining your planking - Derek

[bundyrap]

No joy at Bunnings unfortunately. No cedar and their suppliers are saying no chance of getting any at all before the end of Feb at the very earliest. Best he could suggest was balsa or maybe pine. I had a hunt through their racks and found some good clean lengths of pine and have ripped them up into 8 x 2mm planks which look like they may do the job.
 
I have to keep in mind what I'm trying to recreate here. The attached pic of Sean's gives the basic atmosphere, warts and all of a working boat made 140 odd years ago and not a pristine modern day work of art. I think it will be very difficult to make a hull that actually looks like the pictures with all its little imperfections. I'm loosely aiming to replicate the Adelaide as it might have been at the turn of last century when it would have been 35 plus years old and very much a working boat. The hull will be painted ( the 'right' colour Sean of course - any pictures of this colour scheme?) and the deck very much weathered. How this will be done convincingly I have no idea yet - more research needed.
 
I'm planning for my hull to be a little unconventional in having no formers left in. It will basically be a solid fibreglass hull with a veneer of real wood planking.  My formers a 3mm ply with a 6 x 3 mm capping strips ( does my plane building heritage show too much?)  which should give me enough 'meat' to fair the flow of the formers with the Dremel. About to play with the position if the bearding line which is something I've never tackled before.
 
 The reasoning for this approach is with the lessons learnt from the Mississippi, I need to keep the CofG low and vast majority of its expected 10 - 15kg displacement way below its scale 2.33' water line so I plan to build up a very thick lower hull with multiple fibreglass layers tapering to deck level. This will be much easier to do with no formers in the way and with that much glass, not needed. I can then do a scale wooden deck structure and boiler/engine mounts.
 
Thanks for the Modelers Shipyard info - I will see if I can find their web page. A friend who builds static model ships was showing me his  planking screws and saying how useful they are so I will have to chase them down. Bronze pins from the same people?  

Some pics of the garboard plank soon which should mark some progress.

Just got some exciting news from Don of LhDockyards. My Zulu plan has just been sent and the "Old Smokey" cold water smoker and steam engine sound unit will be sent in the next few days - should all be very interesting.

Richard