James' boat

[Brian]

In answer to whether to use Household paints OR Marine paints !
- - - - -
Even paints are specially designed for specific purposes!

It should be noted that Domestic Household (exterior quality) Paint would not be designed for constant submersion nor for extended exposure to sunlight and moisture, even if the vessel is stored ashore.

To ensure that the hull of the vessel does not need too much attention in the paint department it is advisable that Marine Paints/Varnishes would be used, and the painting/varnishing is done without trying any shortcuts.

The painting processes are preservatives, priming, ondercoating and top coat, with the number of coats as specified by the manufacturer. The protective finishes (paints / varnishes) would require periodic checking as also specified by the manufacturer,

A well known "Marine, Protective, Yacht & Aerospace" paint manufacturer in the UK & worldwide is "International Paints", whose web-site is - http://www.international-coatings.com/

Hoping that these comments do help in the preservation of hulls and upper-works.
- - -
PS Anti-Fouling would also be required for the hull below the waterline, with Boot-Topping used between light and loaded waterlines, as this region becomes alternatively wet and dry (depending on the loading conditions of the vessel).
.

[thewharfonline]

Thanks for that Brian...I have been wonderfing the same thing, if a good quality Exterior paint would do the trick...but I doubted it would!

James fibreglass resin and mesh strips are available from Bunnings and vary in price depending on size. Small strips only a few cm's in length to matts of mesh are available along with different sized cans of resin.

I haven't bought any, Grebe's not too bad fibreglass wise.

I will be needing paint soon though

[Roderick Smith]

I bought my marine paint for Jessie II (some of which has appeared on MV Bunyip) at a supply in Elizabeth St, Melbourne (Discount Marine Supplies?).
Go to www.whitepages.com.au and search.
Antifoul will be less of an annual problem for a boat which spends most of the year on a trailer.  I expect my antifoul to last much longer.
I suspect that this shop would also be a source of your fibreglass/silicon caulking; Jessie II didn't need any (marine ply construction).

Other sources were bayside boat shops: more remote from my suburb, and from Ararat (but closer to Lake Bryan).  James's closest could be at Geelong, but I haven't searched.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

[anth]

james just some advice before turning the hull over you and your dad should brace the beam from one side to the other with some timber in a cpl of places this will help support the hull if there are any weak spots.
It will also  prevent any ribs from cracking from localized stress during the roll over!

 :wink:

[paddlesteamerman1]

By the sounds of it, I will be making a trip to Bunnings store soon!!
I will brace the hull in a couple of places before turning the hull upside down, I was pondering on the thought for a bit...
Also with the mesh strips and fibreglass resin, is that just like using chicken wire and plaster??

And I will search the whitepages and have a look at the shop in Elizabeth St. Do I need someone qualified to caulk a hull??

Sean, let me know about all your painting needs and what you do. The SJ will most likely be fairly similar in the that department!!

Thanks for all the advice.

Oh, and I went to Portland today to find out a little bit more about my hull, and only found out that the harbour master at the time was David Watson Hislop, died in 1947. Harbour Master from 1909 to 1937.. and a an original photo of it (or an identical boat) sitting on the beach next to the newly constructed break water (better known as the Tanker Wharf) All of the information is good information though, but I might have to work backwards for this one!!!

[anth]

james I would become fimilar with what your doing before purchasing  any fibreglass as you don't want to waste time and money :wink:  
I feel the best line of attack would be to purchase or borrow from your local libary any boat maintance books before you carry out any major work.
 fibre glass once set will take huge amount of work  to undo any mistakes.

 :luck anth

[paddlesteamerman1]

Anth, thanks for that, but I was just going to have a look at the approximate prices of materials that I could use and maybe even wack up a budget on the wall (I know I couldnt keep a budget doing this though, but a rough idea is always nice to have handy when talking about money)...

I am going to subscribe to the AAB magazine (but dont know how because they ask which edition you want to start with???) and that should help me a bit..

I will check out the Ararat Library (I doubt that it would have much to do with wooden boat building/restoration)..

There wont be any purchases for a while except for paint stripping materials, and bracing for the hull...

[paddlesteamerman1]

Well, today was very productive in the SJ Shed!! I got out the power sander and some course sand paper and sanded away in the stern until the whole inside stern wall is back to wood (past the primer and everything).. except Dad came out with some useful info after I had finished sanding, the primer was most likely lead based... Oops, I wasn't wearing a mask....
But the wood is beautiful, and it shouldnt take me too long to get it back to wood.. I just need to use a heat gun..
The corner pieces I think are red gum, but I am not sure what the planking is made out of yet.. I will post a couple of photos soon and see if anyone can ID the wood..
But it is starting to look loved!!

Now I need a big

[steamboatmodel]

James,
Even if it is not lead based (unlikely due to its age) you should ALWAYS USE A MASK WHEN POWER SANDING, this will especially apply when you start using fiberglass.
Regards,
Gerald

[Brian]

A question was asked earlier (Friday 24th Nov 2006 - 9:41am) about the caulking of a wooden hull.

During one period of my Admiralty Craft Apprenticeship (civilian) as Shipwright at HM Dockyard Chatham we did a stint of "Wooden Boat Building" although in later years the Shipwright Apprentices were trained in Boatbuilding with GRP (glass reinforced plastic).

The usual boat being built was a clinker-built 10 ft pulling dinghy (land-lubbers know these as rowing boats). The final stage of completion  was that dinghies were painted by a Painter from somewhere else in the Dockyard, and then the dinghy was handed over to the Naval Stores Department for use by the Royal Navy or the Royal Dockyards. By the way, the other boats built by apprentices were 27-feet Montague-rigged Whalers, which were completed in similar fashion to the 10-foot dinghies

Before the hull was varnished/painted the planking was caulked. This was done using White Lead Putty mixed with Red/Brown Ochre pigment to match the Mahogany of the planking (which in those days mixed in bare hands - H&S would not allow this nowadays!). Nowadays the seams between the planks may be caulked with a silicone compound, which was not so readily available during my apprenticeship.

The coloured white lead putty was applied to the planking and forced between the faying surfaces with a circular piece of hardwood (beech) with a tapered end. Into the very end of this wooded tool was hammered a copper boat building rivet (nail) which was in turn filed to  follow the same taper as the wood (to make the very end more hard-wearing). If the planking has been badly prepared the caulking compound could also be accompanied with caulking cotton (the boats we built did not need this addition).

It is recognised that when wooden warships (such as HMS Victory - launched at Chatham in 1765 http://www.hms-victory.com/ or HMS Unicorn - launched at Chatham in 1824  http://www.frigateunicorn.org/history.htm ) and merchantman were built, they were caulked with Tar, with Oakum (unpicked old rope) being hammered  home with Shipwrights' Caulking Hammer and Irons, this caulking was done on thick planks which had special shaped seams to take the caulking. This type of Caulking was done on decks and hulls of the Royal Navies wooden minesweepers (of the "Ton" class - Coastal Minesweepers / Minehunters and the "Ham" - Inshore Minesweepers / Minehunters) before the copper coating and later GRP-coating of the hulls.
 
For some further guidance refer to the following web-site which may be helpful http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.php?Number=1019858 , no doubt there may be other web-sites with some more guidance.

It is hoped that these remarks may help and show that caulking of seams for smaller hulls may not be so hard as many might imagine.

Brian
ex Shipwright.
HM Dockyard, Chatham
.

[paddlesteamerman1]

Thank you so much for all that information once again Brian, you have helped me a lot... Thanks
See I thought that caulking had to be done by a professional caulker, but how you put it doesnt seem that it would be like rocket science, still have to think a bit though!!
Basically all you have to do is put the putty inbetween the planks and bang it in so no water can get in..
And I have bought a mask for sanding now... Hopefully it works..

[paddlesteamerman1]

This is a thread I started on (it is probably your rival Eddy  :wink: ) Yachts and Boating Worldwide forum.. I took on Brian's advice and had a look at the site and posted:

Hello All,
I am new to the site, only joining a few minutes.. I am James McDougall, from 300km north west of Melbourne Victoria Australia...
I have recently bought a 1920's 14' Clinker made out of solid wood. She was used as the Portland Harbour Masters row boat from 1920-1937. She still has the beautiful shape, but needs a lot of restoration. My first job is to sand back all the paint and primers until I can get down to the wood itself. From then I need to fill in a few large cracks with fibreglass resin, but it was the CAULKING I have a question with..  I have no idea what so ever when it comes to caulking.. Any help and suggestions are always welcomed here!!!!!
Hopefully there are some suggestions out there that will be useful..
Cheers



I though that was a fair post, but according to a user on that site you do not caulk the boat to keep it water proof (?!?!?) and you dont fill in the cracks with Fibreglass resin either... I thought that the fibreglass resin was what you were meant to use.. this is a reply I got..
 
 

You do not caulk small clinker boats, all that does is stretch the fastenings and make them leak more. Nor should you fill the cracks with anything rigid like glass fiber, if they are not long fill them with a flexible caulking compound. If they are long either replace the plank, or if she is not worth the effort, clench doublers over the inside, bedded in flexible sealant, before filling the crack as before. If she is dry expect her to take up and squeeze out some of the caulk from the cracks. If she is to be used in sea water and the cracks are small ones, hard household soap can be used as a temporary stopping.

I am still not sure on what to do now.. one person is contradicting the other now  

[michael]

With my boat I have used this super epoxy glue to fill up my cracks even tho it isn't a clinker, you could try that in your smaller places and thne maybe put a but-plate over the top for extra strength

[paddlesteamerman1]

A but plate is just a sheet of material (metal) that screws on on top isnt it??
and the super epoxy glue you would just buy it from Bunnings or somehwere similar??
Ta

[michael]

My but plate is 5mm plywood, original one was 3mm. Then we will nail it on for extra strength.
I got the glue from 'the warehouse' or 'clintz' for $2 same stuff was $10 at mitre10