HMS ARISTCRAT God bless her.

[Walter Snowdon]

In 1939 the vast majority of Paddle Steamers in the United Kingdom were called up to serve in the Royal Navy which they did with great honour. The majority were very quickly converted into minesweepers for which they were idealy suited with their shallow draft and large deck spaces aft. A great many served at Dunkirk, their exploits would fill a book by themselves. Many were lost at the beaches and during the crossings back and forth.
   In 1940 many of them were converted into "EAGLE" boats, anti aircraft ships to escort coastal convoys and to defend estuaries and harbours against air attack, carrying a very heavy short range fire power to deter dive bombers torpedo attacks and minelaying aircraft.
  as these were "Auxiliary" warships very little has been written about them, though they all served so valiently.
   My Favourite, HMS ARISTCRAT  (ex London North Eastern Raiway Disel electric paddler TALISMAN Seved right through to the bitter End. In the few photos I have, she looks every inch a Warship.
   NOW, my first question to Nordrand, I have a rough list of armament she carried but not their positioning. I believe she carried three boulton and Paul four-gun turrets taken from Defiant and Roc fighters, but where were they mounted?  were they on top off tall mounts the same diameter as the turret? Was the armoured shield fitted on the fighters removed from the back of the turret, thus leaving the back of the mount open? Sorry I am taking up so much space but I have been looking for an answer for many years!
  Many more questions will follow- rest of the armament, closure of windows and ports, boats carried, camouflage schemes, deck coverings etc.  Thanks for any input you may Have Nordrand, it will be most welcome. If ever I meet you it will be a privelage to shake your hand and buy you a pint!  Regards from Walter (alias TALISMAN) Snowdon.( A proud associate member of Churchills Pirates, the Royal Navy Patrol service).

[Walter Snowdon]

One other thing Nordrand. As Eddy said, I have a set of Talisman plans and the full article on building a model from them. I would br more than happy to copy them and send them to you. (On the house in lieu of a pint).  regards, walter.

[AlistairD]

TALISMAN was lucky in that the war came along. Had  it not, she would have been scrapped in autumn 1939 by the LNER as a failure,  such were the problems with her original diesel-electric machinery. (information  gleaned from a talk last night at the CRSC on Inglis Clyde paddlers by Iain  Quinn)
 Â 
 Alistair
 Â 
 

  ----- Original Message -----
   From:    Walter Snowdon (research@paddleducks.co.uk)
   To: research@paddleducks.co.uk (research@paddleducks.co.uk)
   Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:55    PM
   Subject: HMS SARACEN God bless her.
   

   
In 1939 the vast majority of Paddle Steamers in the    United Kingdom were called up to serve in the Royal Navy which they did with    great honour. The majority were very quickly converted into minesweepers for    which they were idealy suited with their shallow draft and large deck spaces    aft. A great many served at Dunkirk, their exploits would fill a book by    themselves. Many were lost at the beaches and during the crossings back and    forth.
In 1940 many of them were converted into "EAGLE" boats, anti    aircraft ships to escort coastal convoys and to defend estuaries and harbours    against air attack, carrying a very heavy short range fire power to deter dive    bombers torpedo attacks and minelaying aircraft.
as these were "Auxiliary"    warships very little has been written about them, though they all served so    valiently.
My Favourite, HMS SARACEN (ex London North Eastern Raiway Disel    electric paddler TALISMAN Seved right through to the bitter End. In the few    photos I have, she looks every inch a Warship.
NOW, my first question to    Nordrand, I have a rough list of armament she carried but not their    positioning. I believe she carried three boulton and Paul four-gun turrets    taken from Defiant and Roc fighters, but where were they mounted? were they on    top off tall mounts the same diameter as the turret? Was the armoured shield    fitted on the fighters removed from the back of the turret, thus leaving the    back of the mount open? Sorry I am taking up so much space but I have been    looking for an answer for many years!
Many more questions will follow- rest    of the armament, closure of windows and ports, boats carried, camouflage    schemes, deck coverings etc. Thanks for any input you may Have Nordrand, it    will be most welcome. If ever I meet you it will be a privelage to shake your    hand and buy you a pint! Regards from Walter (alias TALISMAN) Snowdon.( A    proud associate member of Churchills Pirates, the Royal Navy Patrol    service).



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[AlistairD]

Another gem of information about TALISMAN from this  week's talk was that the original GA plans showed her with a hidden paddle box  like CALEDONIA, MERCURY, JUNO and JUPITER. Now that would be an interesting  model to make
 Â 
 Alistair
 

  .
   

   
TALISMAN was lucky in that the war came along. Had it    not, she would have been scrapped in autumn 1939 by the LNER as a failure,    such were the problems with her original diesel-electric machinery.    (information gleaned from a talk last night at the CRSC on Inglis Clyde    paddlers by Iain Quinn)
 
Alistair
 

   
         
       :

     
       ----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Snowdon (research@paddleducks.co.uk (research@paddleducks.co.uk))          
To: research@paddleducks.co.uk (research@paddleducks.co.uk)          (research@paddleducks.co.uk (research@paddleducks.co.uk))          
Sent: Tuesday, November 07,          2006 7:55 PM
Subject: HMS          SARACEN God bless her.



In 1939 the vast majority of          Paddle Steamers in the United Kingdom were called up to serve in the          Royal Navy which they did with great honour. The majority were very          quickly converted into minesweepers for which they were idealy suited          with their shallow draft and large deck spaces aft. A great many served          at Dunkirk, their exploits would fill a book by themselves. Many were          lost at the beaches and during the crossings back and forth.
In 1940          many of them were converted into "EAGLE" boats, anti aircraft ships to          escort coastal convoys and to defend estuaries and harbours against air          attack, carrying a very heavy short range fire power to deter dive          bombers torpedo attacks and minelaying aircraft.
as these were          "Auxiliary" warships very little has been written about them, though          they all served so valiently.
My Favourite, HMS SARACEN (ex London          North Eastern Raiway Disel electric paddler TALISMAN Seved right through          to the bitter End. In the few photos I have, she looks every inch a          Warship.
NOW, my first question to Nordrand, I have a rough list of          armament she carried but not their positioning. I believe she carried          three boulton and Paul four-gun turrets taken from Defiant and Roc          fighters, but where were they mounted? were they on top off tall mounts          the same diameter as the turret? Was the armoured shield fitted on the          fighters removed from the back of the turret, thus leaving the back of          the mount open? Sorry I am taking up so much space but I have been          looking for an answer for many years!
Many more questions will          follow- rest of the armament, closure of windows and ports, boats          carried, camouflage schemes, deck coverings etc. Thanks for any input          you may Have Nordrand, it will be most welcome. If ever I meet you it          will be a privelage to shake your hand and buy you a pint! Regards from          Walter (alias TALISMAN) Snowdon.( A proud associate member of Churchills          Pirates, the Royal Navy Patrol          service).



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Alistair Deayton
Paisley
Scotland


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[Walter Snowdon]

Hi Alistair. There is some debate regarding a decision to dispose of Talisman in 1939. The management board were split into two camps on getting rid or modifying her. The main problem was cracking in the electric motor housing and mounts. English Electric were called in and redisigned and strengthened the castings and from then on there were no further problems. As a warship, sometimes in condirions she was never designed for, the engines performed perfectly and in six years of war service the diesel electrics never broke down or gave any trouble. Indeed, she recieved the ultimate accolade by being praised by "The powers that be" for her reliability and sea keeping qualities.

 On another tack, I have had a magnifying glass on the few photos I have and come up with one or two (or Many) queries. As HMS ARISTOCRAT the staunchions look to be original with the rigid rails removed and a single wire rail roved through the TOP HOLE ONLY of the staunchions. Any ideas as to why this might be?

all the hull and superstructure windows were welded over with a porthole in the middle of the new plate. I cant make out whether the new plates were welded flush with the hull or onto the hull plates, thus standing proud. (This is quite critical on a large scale model). Any ideas, or anyone got better quality photos than me? Most of my pictures come from ARISTOCRAT  THE LONE CRUSADER and an old Ian ALLEN warship directory. If anyone could point me to other picture sources you would make an old man happy! Sorry this is so long, but I have MANY questions which need answering before I re-do the 48th scale plans I have. Regards to all and may all your wakes be twin ones!  Walter.

[Walter Snowdon]

SKYTREX the wargaming model maufacturer have a cast metal model in their 1/600th (airfix ship scale) in their Coastal Forces ship range. From a photo I have seen the casting looks pretty good and the one or two inacuracies are easily fixed. When painted it would make quite an atracive little waterline model. Regards, Walter.

[AlistairD]

This was researched for the talk, with  help from somebody who had worked at A & J Inglis yard.
 English Electric replaced the engine housings in  1939-40.
 Â 
 What has HMS Saracen to do with paddle steamers. I have just  googled the name, I get two results, a fictional warship in a novel by Douglas  Reeman and a submarine
 Â 
 Alistair

 Â 
 Walter wrote
 Hi Alistair. There is some debate regarding a decision  to dispose of Talisman in 1939. The management board were split into two camps  on getting rid or modifying her. The main problem was cracking in the electric  motor housing and mounts. English Electric were called in and redisigned and  strengthened the castings and from then on there were no further problems. As a  warship, sometimes in condirions she was never designed for, the engines  performed perfectly and in six years of war service the diesel electrics never  broke down or gave any trouble. Indeed, she recieved the ultimate accolade by  being praised by "The powers that be" for her reliability and sea keeping  qualities.

On another tack, I have had a magnifying glass on the few  photos I have and come up with one or two (or Many) queries. As HMS SARACEN the  staunchions look to be original with the rigid rails removed and a single wire  rail roved through the TOP HOLE ONLY of the staunchions. Any ideas as to why  this might be?

all the hull and superstructure windows were welded over  with a porthole in the middle of the new plate. I cant make out whether the new  plates were welded flush with the hull or onto the hull plates, thus standing  proud. (This is quite critical on a large scale model). Any ideas, or anyone got  better quality photos than me? Most of my pictures come from SARACEN THE LONE  CRUSADER and an old Ian ALLEN warship directory. If anyone could point me to  other picture sources you would make an old man happy! Sorry this is so long,  but I have MANY questions which need answering before I re-do the 48th scale  plans I have. Regards to all and may all your wakes be twin ones!  Walter.



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[Walter Snowdon]

Sorry Alistair I have Saracen tatooed on my brain for some reason!  I had corrected the original message but for some reason the error got rhrough. It should have read Aristocrat. Regards, Walter.

[AlistairD]

OK, we all make mistakes sometimes, no  problem
 Â 
 Alistair
 

  ----- Original Message -----
   From:    Walter Snowdon (research@paddleducks.co.uk)
   To: research@paddleducks.co.uk (research@paddleducks.co.uk)
   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:30    PM
   Subject: RE: HMS ARISTCRAT God bless    her.
   

   
Sorry Alistair I have Saracen tatooed on my brain for    some reason! I had corrected the original message but for some reason the    error got rhrough. It should have read Aristocrat. Regards,    Walter.



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[Nordrand]

Hi, With regard to general discussion I have been catching up on I have a copy of a letter dated 26 October 1945 written by W Douglas Lt Comd (E) R.N.R. to Mr Paulin, English Electric Co, Describing Aristocrats war service.

I wont write the whole content as it is rather long, But I can copy and send later, but I will quote the last paragraph our milage to date is 46,583 miles. Not bad for a ship that was about to be written off.

Regards
Nordrand

[lner]

Talisman: The Solitary Crusader by Dale Brown (I think) is well worth a read if you can find it.

It was widely felt that as Aristocrat her war service record was far superior to her early peactime record.  

It also seemed that several times she was about to be scrapped something happened and she was pressed back into service.

[Nordrand]

Hi Walter,Glad to read your admiration for paddle steamers in general and Aristocrat in particular. I share your admiration for her and my gratitude for bringing me and all the crews who served on her safely through the war years.
Dick Polglaze has sent me some answers re- your questions, this info I would like to send by snail mail, typing is not my forte. Dick and I will be more than happy to continue to help in aquiring information you will need in order to build Aristocrat to your satisfaction.

Please send me your address to enable me to send some info. As to your offer of the plans of Talisman I would be delighted to have them.

Nordrand

[Walter Snowdon]

Hi Nordrand, sorry for the delay in replying and thanks for your continued help.  As soon as I can get the plans coppied I will send you a set together with other info  have accumalated. I will send my address by private message if you could do the same. At the moment i have started to draw my own plans of HMS Aristocrat at 1/48th scale, adding all  the military changes as and when I get them. Could take a few months but it should be worth it!.  Regards, walter.

[Nordrand]

Hi, I have sent my address by private email, and look forward to receiving the plans. I am now looking forward to the new life of HMS Aristocrat.

Nordrand