Boiler testing 2006 style

[sandy_ACS]

   :boom

Hi all...me again...

Eddy...I noticed on another forum (of which you are a member) a post requesting clarification of the boiler test certification requirements, and I thought that some input would be appropriate here on PD's

I have not posted anything on the other site...cos i'm not a member...one bunch of loonies is all I can handle.... :music     ....but I would be happy for you to post this directly under your own sign-on, if you feel like it.

I attach a PDF file with the latest regulations, as they apply to our model steam boats etc.

I am sure many of you will find these of some use in clarifying things.
 :nose  :hmph  :hmmm  :luck

Happy reading.

Best Regards.

Sandy. :computer  

[Red_Hamish]

Hello all, Sandy thank you for taking the time to provide youir synopsis of the current regulations.  A question if I may, where does one get the test done on an annual basis if not a member of a model engineering society?  :?  I ask as I am not aware of one up here and it is becoming more apparent that I am being drawn ever closer to going down the steam route. :roll:  
cheers

Jim

[Eddy Matthews]

Thanks Sandy, I'm sure that will clear up a lot of the confusion that currently exists after the regulations were changed!

Jim, some model boat clubs have members and equipment for testing boilers, I know ours does...

[sandy_ACS]

 

Hi PD's,

No problem Eddy, Jim, all part of the service.

On the subject of test facilities: -

It is not necessary to be a member of a model engineering club/society and, as Eddy has already pointed out, a lot of model boat clubs have an official tester for such things and even if they do not then there is provision in the new rules to help on this score: -

quote:

Section 2.6

In order to provide for the situation of a boiler inspector not wishing to test a particular boiler due to his lack of knowledge in the specific type of boiler

Viz
 (an inspector shall have at the very least, a sound knowledge and experience of the plant he is to examine, such as will enable him to detect defects or weakness which it is the purpose of the examiner to discover. The individual should know his limitations and should not act outside his level of qualification or knowledge)


and where there is either no alternative examiner, or no examiner, within said club, arrangements can be made for the boiler inspector of one club to test a boiler in the ownership of a member of another club; such an arrangement will be made between clubs, on behalf of the member/s concerned and not directly between a member and the boiler inspector.
It will be a matter for the clubs to check that such an arrangement is covered within the insurance cover available to them.

end quote.

If the Aberdeen club does not have an inspector, then, under this rule,  it would be possible to arrange for (say the Edinburgh club) to do the testing, assuming they have a test inspector.

Also Jim, there is no hard and fast legal requirement in the UK for users of model boilers to comply with the PSSR (for personal use on private property), since they do not apply, generally, to those operating pressure equipment as a hobby activity, however, the problem comes when the user wishes to use said equipment in a public place (e.g. boating lake) when insurance is mandatory.

Most insurers require that you are a member of a club (which then permits group insurance to be allocated) and that you have test certification to prove that the equipment meets with the Health and Safety Executive guide lines (the very same rules as we are talking about).
It therefore follows that if you wish to use model steam equipment in a public place (often on waters under the control/ownership of a club, or society) then you may need to join a club.

Even if you can find an insurer (and you would be very advised to get 3rd party liability/injury indemnity at the very least) they will still require you to submit a valid certification document/s before granting the cover.

If you are not a club member, and are either unable to join one (due to non availability in the area) then the onus is on the individual to locate a test facility.

Some university facilities have an engineering department (Aberdeen being one) and it may be possible to get a boiler tested at these (for a fee of course), alternatively, try looking up Model engineering societies and ask them if they can either provide, or can advise of, a suitable test facility.

In Scotland: -

Strathaven Model Engineering Society Ltd  for example.....

These are affiliated to the Northern Federation of Model Engineers (one of the main players in the new rules) and should be able to either test a boiler, or provide you with details a suitable (and perhaps more local) facility.

I accept that this is not the best of scenarios, however, it can pay to look into the possibilities, and it is a whole lot better than the chaos and confussion which reigned prior to the new 2006 regulations. At least all the societies are in agreement and will accept each others certification, which was not necessarily the case before.


There are some areas (Cheddar valley for example) where the local club will (for a fee) test non-members boilers, however, they generally hound you until you do join. (which can have other advantages).

Whichever way is used, it is essential that you check with your insurer that the method/facility proposed is within their accepted codes of practice.

Hope this helps some more. :no1    

Best regards.

Sandy.

[Red_Hamish]

Sandy , thanks this does help clarify the onus and criteria required. One day .... a steam engined launch to potter around with. getting old before my time   :lol: . Once again thanks for your input

cheers

Jim

[Walter Snowdon]

Forgive my ignorance on the matter, but I understand the regulations ( European) that require boiler testing exempts boilers under a certain capacity from testing, thus leaving small boilers such as Mamod and Wilesco etc free from regulations as they run at such a low pressure.
I know that the exemption on size is quite generous as all my boilers are small and are exempt. There was a small anouncement to this efect in Model Boats a few years ago . The problem arises at Regattas etc where the rules are local and are often mis-interpreted.  Walter.

[sandy_ACS]

 

Hi PD's,


Walter, you understanding is quite correct...your small Mamod/wilesco type boilers are exempted, since they fall into the under 1.5 bar/litre range.
This is true for any small boiler that comes below this number, at least as far as the requirements for pressure testing is concerned.

The same, however, does not necessarily hold true in respect of the STEAM TESTING requirement.
In this respect, the new rules leave an open door, and In my own humble opinion, the Health and Safety Executive missed a golden opportunity to nip this in the bud, so to speak, when the new rules were being draughted.

Whilst the new rules clearly state that these small boilers are exempted from the requirements, they also state, in the same paragraph...quote: " however it is recommended that small boiler safety valves are tested every 12 months in order to ensure correct operation at the correct release pressure and that the boiler, the engine and the pipework installation are also checked at least every 12 months" end quote.

This is, quite frankly, wide open to mis-interpretation, especially in these times, where the threat of litigation is on everyones mind.
I think the Health and Safety Executive should have made this a clear EXEMPT from all, or NON EXEMPT from any.

As it is, clubs can, and do, make additional rules (often due to Insurance requirements, not all insurers have yet accepted the new rules) requiring that all steam boilers must have a valid certificate. They are, of course, perfectly within their right to do so, however, (and this is where the problem lies) in making these additional 'LOCAL' rules they fail to distinguish between PRESSURE TEST REQUIREMENTS and STEAM TEST REQUIREMENTS.

Any club, or official body that refuses to allow you to operate your SMALL BOILER equipment solely on the grounds that you do not hold a valid pressure test certificate is clearly in breach of these rules and this alone, under European Law,  is ILLEGAL.

 Such LOCAL or ADDITIONAL rules; quote:"SHALL not amend or overrule any part of this test code". end quote:

They are, however, quite within their rights to require a valid STEAM TEST CERTIFICATE. Most do, but others don't. QED.....

Personally, I am in total agreement with this request, since even a small mamod type boiler can be quite dangerous if not maintained properly, and I feel the rule book should have made this a mandatory requirement, and also the requirement for a pressure gauge to be fitted.

I am not suggesting, for one minute, Walter, that you do not maintain your small boilers correctly, but there are others who may/do not, either through neglect or complacency.

Now some of you may be thinking...he's only saying this because it's his trade....well this is not true....

many years back, I used to date a young lady and, naturally, would often go to her home.
She had a younger brother, he was 11 at the time, and on one of my visits I was greeted by a sobbing and very distraught mother and girlfriend...on asking the reason I was told... he had playing with his stationary steam engine in the kitchen and it had burst in his face...the result of this accident left him with a very badly scared face and the loss of an eye.

This model engine was of German origin and similar to some of the Wilesco model around today....the boiler was made from polished brass, as was the cylinder and flywheel, and it was retained between quite heavy steel end plates. The whole thing was fired with methylated spirit.
Investigation, by the constabulary, revealed that the safety valve had got stuck, due to heavy scale build up and the pressure had built up to such a high level that it had blown the safety valve, still in its mounting bush, clean out of the boiler. This had hit him directly in his eye, and the following volume of scalding water had done the rest of the damage.

This young lad, he is 57 now, has had to go through a substantial part of his life bearing the results of this, avoidable, accident.

Had this boiler been fitted with a suitable pressure gauge, and the end plates of the boiler had not been constrained within a close fitting steel frame...then perhaps this accident would have been avoided as the rising pressure could have been easily spotted, and the burner removed,  before disaster struck
 I still see him, Joe is his name, and often think about that day when I am boiler making.

OK guy's I will get off my soap box and get this posted.......think about it though.    :hmmm

Best regards.



Sandy. :computer  

[Eddy Matthews]

Thanks for the clarification on small boilers Sandy - It basically seems to come down to "Use common sense!".

I'm sure it would have been much easier if the governing body had simply used common sense when they drafted the new rules, but in these days of litigation and sue sue sue it would be sensible to have a valid test certificate even if your boiler is exempt?

[sandy_ACS]

   

Hi Again,

Yes Eddy, I totaly agree...trouble is, dare I say it?..."Common sense" seems to be becoming a rare thing these days.      

One other problem...a lot of these small boilers would, due to flimsy construction, soft soldered joints and unsuitable materials would not pass the pressure test requirements....this would naturaly lead to litigation from the manufacturers, claiming unfair exclusion or some such garbage....better to design a boiler to meet the requirements is what I say.
I think, perhaps, the authorities had such things in mind when they draughted the rule book.   Rather makes a mockery of it all in this light, what?

Ah Well!!!!

Best Regards.

Sandy.  

[gemini]

Greetings from a newly registered member :computer  

Many thanks to :bow Sandy for info and to Eddy pointing me in the right direction :clap2  

Regards  Gemini  

[Eddy Matthews]

It's good to see you've joined us Gemini... I hope you'll find lots to interest you.

[gemini]

Sandy

Can you offer any advise regarding the testing of removable gas tanks

Regards

Gemini

[sandy_ACS]

 

Hi PD's.

Gemini....

Gas tanks must be re-tested every 2 years and should be tested to the following pressures depending upon the particular gas/combination your tank is specified for.

BUTANE 100%                   14.5bar       210.5psig
BUTANE/PROPANE 90/10    17.5bar       254.0psig
BUTANE/PROPANE 80/20    18.5bar       268.5psig
BUTANE/PROPANE 70/30    23.0bar       333.5psig
BUTANE/PROPANE 60/40    26.0bar       377.5psig


These figures are derived from data provided by commercial gas supply sources and are in accordance with BS. 5355, BS 5329 and European directive EN.417

Calculations contain the following elements:

   Maximum developed saturation pressure at 55 deg.C.
   Safety factor of 1.9
   Calculations in bar.

conversion to psi - 1bar = 14.504 psi.

Most manufacturers of model gas tanks test to 375psi and specify a max Propane content of 30%.

You can use a mix lower than specified but not one higher than tested for.

Using a mix that specifies a higher test pressure than that to which your tank has been tested will invalidate your insurance.

Most model clubs and societies (within Europe at least) including the MODEL POWERBOAT ASSOCIATION (MPBA) have agreed and adopted these requirements.

One slight problem...although many of these clubs/associations can undertake Boiler testing...not so many have the capability (equipment wise) to undertake gas tank testing.

Hope this helps.
     :computer

Cheers all.

Sandy

[derekwarner_decoy]

Hi PD's - just   again....Sandy

.....we apply a hydrostatic test for our boiler.....we apply a hydrostatic test for our GAZ a tanck.....but what are the rules for all of these shiny BITZ of bent         interconnecting 1/8" OD & 5/32" OD BRASS tube  :?:

Now please remember people scoffed & scorned at my request for a non standard GAZ isolation valve which is now installed POSTE the GAZ a tanck which permits me to isolate the tanck & associated tube sets

Same applies to my  :no1 beautiful ACS VB2 boiler..... I have a water pressure pilot line complete with water isolation valve to regulate the GAZ from my GAZ a tanck.....

The GAZ or and water tubing to both of these components are technically pressure vessels..... so what are the RULES :?:

Oh BTW Eddy, I think spell cheque is asleep this morning  : - probably due to the WITHDRAWAL of daylight around the world that took place last night .........  :nah   - Derek

[sandy_ACS]

   :twisted:  :

Hi PD's    :computer

Steam and Gas pipes…the rules…

Good question Derek….

As you rightly point out, these items are indeed pressure vessels, however, unless they are extremely long (many yards), or of very large bore,  they can be considered as exempt, under the NOT EXCEEDING 1.5bar/litre rule. UNLESS….they are permanently connected to the boiler (i.e. soldered in place (silver solder only)), in which case they would constitute part of the main pressure vessel and would therefore be included in the hydraulic testing of this.

The only real rules are that they should be constructed from suitable materials (preferably Copper, but Brass can be accepted), having sufficient cross section for the pressure involved (for 1/8” – 1/4” OD pipes, 22swg or 20swg wall thickness is more than ample), and that all end connections/nipples are correctly soldered in place (high temperature solder…viz. silver solder or Comsol H.T.).

These would then come under scrutiny when the outfit was submitted for  STEAM TESTING, where they would first be inspected (in a cold state) for condition and stability (especially where Brass is used, since this is subject to de-zincification when used in a steam environment) and again when steam is raised, where the pipework, and all connections will be inspected for leaks etc. ANY pipe, or joint, found to be defective must be replaced and the whole steam test repeated. A LOOSE connection may be tightened and the test continued, at the discretion of the examiner.

Much the same rules apply for GAS pipes; however, there are a few additional rules for these.

In general, pipe work between gas tank and burner must be of metal, Copper is the preferred type, but Brass is acceptable.

All union connections/joints must be SILVER SOLDERED.

The majority of authorities (in the UK and EU at least), insurers, and clubs insist upon rigid metal connections, as above, however, the MPBA (Model Powerboat Association) rulebook still permits flexible connections, under certain circumstances, but they must follow strict adherence to the following….

For LOW heat burners (ceramic types) the first 102mm of pipe (at the burner end) must be of appropriate sized COPPER.

For HIGH heat burners (blowlamp style) the first 153mm of pipe (burner end) must be of appropriate size COPPER.

The remainder of the pipe-work back to the gas tank/valve may be of a GAS quality flexible hose that meets the requirement of B.S. 3212 and/or 737/17.
E.g., B.S. 3212/2/4 08/95….Where 3212 is the standard, /2 is high pressure, /4 is the bore and 08/95 is the date of manufacture.
737/17 is an international standard.
NO OTHER TYPE OF HOSE IS PERMISSABLE.

Where flexible hose and Copper pipe is used for burners, the appropriate connections MUST be used. This means Copper pipe must be smooth flared or have the correct convolute form, silver soldered on, and hoses must be clipped, using one time crimp clips.

These latter clips require a special crimping tool, which is a very expensive item.

Screw type, worm clips (such as jubilee clips) are not acceptable.


For both STEAM and GAS, the design/construction of all control/stop valves must be such that it is impossible to completely unscrew and remove the control spindle whilst in normal service. (In other words, they must have captive spindles).

So there you have it…and may the Steam and GAS gods have mercy on your efforts.


FAT CHANCE


I attach a special exceptions page, for some PD's in the suvern hemisffeer.


 :twisted:  :twisted:  :    


Best regards.

Sandy. :clap2