Size of plating

[RickF]

What would the size of plating be on a tug such as "Chieftain"? Would the joints be staggered on alternate rows? Would the overlaps be like a clinker-built boat or "one up and one down? What would the rivet spacing be?

Lots of questions, I know, but I'm having a go at a freelance 1/32 scale based on "Chieftain" and I want to show the plating.

Rick

[PJ]

Very interesting question, Rick, and I'm surprised no one has jumped in with a reply.  I wish I could help you but I don't have an accurate enough answer that you could "take to the bank".

The first question is what method was used for securing the plates.  I believe that earlier iron ships tended to have riveted plates and later steel ships welded plates, but I don't know what the appropriate time lines are for these.  I have two hulls I have stopped because I too want to reproduce the accurate plating on them.  It's impossible to get the original plating diagram for them but I can at least try to find out what was the "norm" for a British Paddle Steamer around the 1880's.  I imagine it's the same for a paddle tug of around that era too.  I have a very nice 1:48 steam model of "Chieftain" back in the UK which was given to me by an accomplished model maker, but the hull shows no plating detail.

Next I believe there are different methods of "joggling" the plates, and no doubt the reason for your question. I've looked at some of my models and the WW2 warships (welded steel) seem to be in rows starting at deck level with the for'ard plate lapped over the one behind it and so on to the stern.  This entire row appears to lie on top the second row down which also follows the same "lapping" as the row above but slightly staggered.
The next row down similarly sits on top of the second row.  I also have a model where there is no "lapping" for and aft of the plates which seem to be flush welded but each row from the deck down sits on top of the one below (like wooden clinker).

It would seem to me that "Chieftain" would have had an iron riveted hull, but that's purely an inspired guess.  You often hear me refer to Stuart Badger in Sussex, UK  who has built a magnificent operating steam model of "Reliant/Old Trafford" with the hull plates rendered accurately. Thankfully someone has thought to preserve a construction article and photos on line and you can see them at:

http://website.lineone.net/~d.ord/Model%20Tugs.htm

I wish we could archive this classic construction article here on Paddleducks because I have seen the model and it's breath taking.

One question which I'd also like to tie down is the best method of attaching plates to a fibreglass sealed wooden hull so they will not delaminate or "spring" below the water.  I'd like to try thin styrene plates that can be rivet embossed first.  I have still not yet found a non-clamping adhesive which I'd trust underwater.  I'm worried about brass or copper plating for two reasons...weight and my high level of mediocrity when it comes to anything other than electrical soldering !

I'll do some more research on plating and let you know when I find anything more.  Perhaps you could also share your information with us.  I'm sure there must be other PD's who have some info or comments on this subject and their input will be really useful, so come on guys please!  I believe it's useful to keep this thread going because reproducing accurate plating on a model ship is so often overlooked and, in my opinion, vital to a well executed model.  

Thank you for bringing up this interesting topic, Rick.  Please stay in touch on or offlist!

Regards

PJ
Victoria, BC Canada

[RickF]

Thanks PJ, lots of interesting thoughts there. I have always built 1:92 warships until now, but I unearthed a battered old hull that just shouted "paddle tug" at me, so here goes.

I tried your link to Stuart Badger's model, but got "cannot find server". I'll try again later, but is the URL correct?

As regards attaching the plating, I was planning to make pre-embossed paper strips, glue them on with waterproof PVA then coat them with several coats of either varnish or resin.

Regards

Rick

[Eddy Matthews]

One of the guys in my club does superb models with full plating detail on the hull... He makes the plates from thin styrene card, the rivets are easy to do, just use the point of a biro or pencil and push gently from the back - It will indent the styrene sheet so that it looks like the domed head of a rivet from the other side... A bit of practice to get the right pressure needed and it's as simple as that.

These pre-made plates are then glued to the model using evostick contact adhesive. I've never seen a plate come loose from one of his models, so the technique obviously works.

I hope that helps a little?

[Eddy Matthews]

I have a tin of the glue he uses here Paul, it's in a red 500ml tin with a screw top, the only thing it says on the can is Evostick Impact adhesive.

I'll ask about some photos and plating details next time I see him, but it may take a while as his wife is ill at the moment and he doesn't get down to the club as often as he used to....

[Khephre]

Hi PJ, Eddy, Rick and co,

I had thought about replying myself to Rick's post but as PJ says the topic of plating is indeed a very complex one.

If you don't have access to the original shell expansion plans for the specific prototype then your only option is to model something that's "representative" of the period.

There's a very good article in one of the most recent model boat magazines out of the UK that explores this subject in detail. The article is specifically about building a model hull using steel plates, but the comments are relevant to other materials as well mainly because it spends a lot of time talking about plate layouts, overlaps, strakes, etc. I think that it was the July or August Model Boats issue - sorry I'm not at home at present to check.

If I remember there are a few plans of plate expansions in C Waine's book on British Steam Coasters - same series as Thomas's British Steam Tugs. That might give you are few more ideas.

When William Mowyll built his HMS Warrior back in the '80s he built a plug for the fibreglass mould and plated the plug using common or garden masking tape - the 'grain' of the tape was just right for simulating the surface of steel plating.

The pounce wheel idea sounds great - you can also, if really anal-retentive, simulate using a syringe loaded with white glue and dot down each rivet head. But I would have thought that all but the most obvious rivetting details are probably wasted on any scale smaller than 1:32

Tony

[RickF]

Thanks guys, no shortage of ideas and suggestions here!

I have used the "biro embossed plasticard" system long ago in my railway modelling days. I also thought of making a pounce wheel out of old brass clock cogs too. The reason I was thinking of using paper was that a) it would conform to the hull shape better; b) I could use PVA glue; and c) its cheap! As suggested, I will do a few trial pieces in various materials.

Thanks again

Rick