My first Sidewheeler

[cowana]

Hi! I have decided to build a paddle steamer. I want it to be about one metre long, and I will try to base it on this boat - http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/Thames_Turk-Launches.html#anchor1284357. I will get some plans to scale down soon, and I will probably make it out of plywood and balsa.

However, I need to decide how to power it. I think I will use 12V lead acid batteries, probably one 5Ah or 7Ah. The main problem for me at this time is the motor choice.

I currently have:
A 300 size, 30:1 motor. I could use one for each paddle.
A 540 size motor
A Speed 600 motor
A Speed 700 motor

I would be happy to buy other stuff (as long as it is not too expensive).

What motors do you use for your paddleboats? Also, I would want to make the two paddles - what kind of dimensions are we talking about?

Thanks,


Andrew

My main concern is budget - I don't really want to spend more than £20 on the motor/s.  I would probably have a rudder.  The boat I am making a model of actually has duel props, and dummy paddle wheels, but I don't want to do this.

[ky paddlewheeler]

glad to see that you came over here. (Im racing redneck)

I dont know much about sidewheelers but Eddy or Stu and more could help ya out, sorry I got a 6th grade education when it come to side wheels :cry:

[Eddy Matthews]

I normally use MFA geared motors, you can view full specifications for them on the MFA website: http://www.mfacomodrills.com/ Which should make it fairly easy to selct the correct motor/gearbox based on the output speed you want and the voltage your running at...

The cheapest place I know to buy them from is Scoonie Hobbies: http://www.scoonie-hobbies.co.uk/

[cowana]

The motor I have is an MFA 30:1 geared motor.

I want the boat to be about 1 metre long, as I said, so:
     - How big should the paddles be?
     - How fast should they go (to make the boat go at a good speed)

[Eddy Matthews]

I'd use paddles of 4"-5" diameter - It really depends on what looks right or the model, just make up a disk from card and try it on the side of the hull to see if it looks okay, with paddle floats around 3" wide and an inch deep - Again whatever looks right for your intended model....

If you get about 180 RPM with no load - ie the paddles just running in air, that should drop to around 120 RPM when the model is in the water, and will give you a decent starting point.... if the model is too fast, just drop the voltage slightly, or if it's too slow increase it....

It's all a bit of trial and error for each model I'm afraid, no two paddlers are the same, so you have to be prepared to experiment.

[cowana]

Thanks - that is really useful.

I will either go for the 15:1 12V small gearbox or the 30:1 12V small gearbox.

The first says it goes 280rpm at 6V, the second says 280rpm at 12V.

I will then slow these down to whatever speed looks most scale.  I will have one motor and a rudder.

Most likely I will use the 6V one, as 6V lead acid batteries are lighter and cheaper.  However, I may use a 12V battery to give me more speed if I want it.  Thanks to Eddy for the help!

Andrew

[mjt60a]

Hello, I was wondering if you intend to make your paddles wider than those on Yarmouth Belle (which is actually driven by propeller - I doubt they'd have windows in the hull behind the paddles if they were powered!) f you see the real vessel close up, the paddles diameter looks OK but in width, they're tiny...
It'll be interesting to see how it performs - even as a model - with paddle propulsion  

[Eddy Matthews]

Yep I agree with Mick totally - The floats need to be a LOT wider than those stupid little things on the real boat, and you definately do not want to have windows behind the paddles!

[cowana]

I will definitly make the paddles wider - thanks for the help.

The real thing - dummy paddles and a dummy funnel

Mine - working paddles and a smoke generator.

Thanks for the advise saying they need to be larger - I will do that.  Hopefully it will perform OK...

Decided: I will use a 12V 7Ah lead acid battery, and a MFA 15:1 12V motor.

[PJ]

Actually, Mick, from what I remember of a trip  aboard Waverley she has a small porthole either side in the engine  room behind her paddles where you can see the wheel rotating  outside.  With all the water frothing by, it looks a bit of like  watching a front loader washing machine!   I rather suspect its  so the Chief Engineer can see the wheel rotation as, other than that view,  he can see nothing going on outside the engine room.  Maybe Walter,  who has probably spent more time aboard her than any other PD can tell  us the purpose of these little portholes.  Next question...did all paddlers  have an engine room porthole(s) like this?
 Â 
 By the way, one of the best views I remember from Waverley  under full steam was obtained by sticking your head outside the starboard male  head (washroom) porthole! Fabulous view of the bow cutting through the  water!
 Â 
 PJ.
 

  ----- Original Message ----- To: drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk (drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk)    
   From: mjt60a (drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk)
   Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 3:21  PM
   Subject: RE: My first Sidewheeler
   

   
Hello, I was wondering if you intend to make your    paddles wider than those on Yarmouth Belle (which is actually driven by    propeller - I doubt they'd have windows in the hull behind the paddles if they    were powered!) if you see the real vessel close up, the paddles diameter looks    OK but in width, they're tiny...
It'll be interesting to see how it    performs - even as a model - with paddle  propulsion

[PJ]

One thing I recommend on any  model side-wheeler is to first build the hull and main deck (always as  light as possible), install the propulsion and control systems that  will deliver approx 120 rpm at the paddle shafts. Many model paddlers are  under powered because either because their wheel rotation is wrong (too fast is  as bad as too slow), their total paddle blade area is too small, or the  "dip" of the wheel is either too high or too low. Generally, since water is not  scaleable, rotation has to be increase to almost double the real ship and paddle  blade area increased by as much as an additional 50 percent.  This can be  done by either making the model paddle blades wider or deeper, or a combination  of both, but you do need to experiment first to avoid the risk of ending up with  a disappointing "sitting duck". You also need to carefully calculate the  available weight you have left for the superstructure once you  have installed everything else in the hull.  Finding the correct  waterline for a model side-wheeler is absolutely crucial.  In the  old Yahoo PD/s we discussed this question exhaustively as I had just built a  side-wheeler which performed flawlessly. You might be able to find some further  help in the old PD Yahoo archives which Eddy made an enormous effort to  save. 
 Â 
 I strongly recommend you build very simple  "dummy paddle wheels" out of styrene BEFORE you even build the superstructure.  These are simple discs built by laminating two 1/16" styrene discs together  for a total of 1/8".  Thicker is better. The diameter of the discs is  the same as the outside diameter of your final wheels. Drill the centre to  accept a styrene centre boss (hub) which slides over your paddle  shaft.  Now determine how many sets of blades you will have and mark  spots equidistant around the circumference of your discs.  Your paddle  blades will be at least 1/16" styrene. Whatever the thickness is, cut  similar thickness radial slots into the discs so the blades slide ride into the  disc and glue them in place. You now have a quick built paddle wheel out of  styrene which is easy to glue with simple lacquer thinner.  Build  another wheel to make up the pair.  Make some kind of rudimentary box  over the wheels to stop water splashing up into the hull as the wheels  rotate.  Now use weights to bring the whole thing down to a waterline  where the paddle blades are dipping about half way into the  water.  
 Â 
 Now do your "sea trials" to determine in the performance is  acceptable.  If not, then this is where the mods start by either  altering the size of the blades (increase their area by sticking extra bits of  styrene to inside top and outboard edges).  By the time you have the  correct area these impromptu paddles may look like hell..but they will be  giving you the performance you want and a very good idea of how to build your  final wheels.  Generally avoid enlarging the overall paddle wheel  diameter too much as it can get to look out of scale. You then experiment  with ballasting to achieve the most efficient immersion of the blades and to  make sure your vessel has inherent stability. BTW all your  machinery/batteries/boilers/w.h.y should be mounted as LOW in the hull as  possible. Once you have everything working properly,  take out all your ballast and weigh it.  Your superstructure and everything  you put on your model from now on CANNOT exceed this weight or else you'll lose  performance.
 Â 
 Building a great perfoming model sidewheeler is as much an art as a science and requires lots of  experimenting...unless you're following a model plan that has already been  proven.  I only ever built one side-wheeler and it took a year of testing  and refining but all the effort was so well worth it as the model was amazing on  the water.  In fact that's how Paddleducks started as a way of sharing all  this info so I hope I'm remembering it correctly.  I have helped a  number of people with model side-wheeler problems which arose because they did  not fully understand the complexities of these models.  Simply building a  model that looks good out of the water could set you up for a bitter  disappointment when you launch it.  Many model paddler builders will tell  you that building a side-wheeler requires quite a different  approach to a sternwheeler which is a little more forgiving on the  water. Just ask Eddy to tell you some of his experiences with a  side-wheeler and I think he can pretty much fill in any gaps I've missed.   
 Â 
 What I have written here is a VERY rudimentary review and all  I want to do is to save you the possibility of eventual  disappointment. I've seen it so many times!  Do not hesitate to shout  for help if you need it as I think your choice of paddler model is superb,  although you might consider making her a little bigger so you can easily  accommodate a 12V system!
 Â 
 Regards
 Â 
 PJ 
 

  ----- Original Message -----
   From:    cowana (drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk)
   To: drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk (drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk)    
   Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 3:43  PM
   Subject: RE: My first Sidewheeler
   

   
I will definitly make the paddles wider - thanks for    the help.

The real thing - dummy paddles and a dummy funnel

Mine    - working paddles and a smoke generator.

Thanks for the advise saying    they need to be larger - I will do that. Hopefully it will perform    OK...



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[cowana]

How big do you think I should make it to accomodate a 12V 7Ah battery?

Andrew

[cowana]

PJ that is really interesting and helpul.  Fow do you think i should go about making a scale model of this boat?  Experiment with paper and use the folded plywood technique? Or mayby, (shiver) formers, planks and fibreglass (please not this...).  How would you guys start about making a scale hull? (or a roughly scale hull)?

Andrew

[PJ]

Andrew.
 Â 
 I may have missed it somewhere, but did you mention if you  have plans yet?
 Â 
 PJ
 

  ----- Original Message -----
   From:    cowana (drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk)
   To: drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk (drivesystems@paddleducks.co.uk)    
   Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 7:19    AM
   Subject: RE: My first Sidewheeler
   

   
(SNIP) How would you guys start about making a    scale hull? (or a roughly scale hull)?

Andrew



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[cowana]

No, I don't  I emailed Turks asking for some more detailed photos or plans of the original ship, but they havent replied yet.

If anyone has any plans like this that I could adapt the superstructure or even make tat boat, then I would love to see/buy them.  Originally I wanted to make a model of this lovely boat I often see, but I would still be happy to make another boat from plans, as the improved performance is probably worth more than the fact it is a different ship.

Andrew